From zero to hero – Arshavin wins title


It’s a funny old game football. In January, having slipped into the footballing equivalent of a coma, Andrei Arshavin cut the most sorry of figures. Plump and in a slump, he couldn’t have been further removed from the sparkling figure who arrived in London four years earlier declaring “I am Gooner now.”

It appears though, that the much loved / incredibly frustrating winger (delete as appropriate) has revived his bottom-waddling swagger and even has a medal to prove it. Loaned to former club Zenit St Petersburg in February, the midfielder has since rediscovered his form and been an important cog in Luciano Spalletti’s squad as they secured their third ever Russian Premier League title.

Officially crowned champions on Sunday, despite losing their final game of the season, the diminutive winger was affectionately carried on the shoulders of a buoyant home crowd (although that one chap at the back looks a bit pained) as they revelled in the successful return of their prodigal son.

It remains to be seen whether Arshavin is still part of Arsene Wenger’s plans. Focusing on his participation at the European Championships in Poland and Ukraine the 30-year-old has made clear he won’t talk about his future until his international duties are done and dusted.

“I haven’t yet thought about (my future). Everything will be decided after the European Championship,” Arshavin told Russian newspaper Sport Express.

“Of course, the result and quality of play there could affect my destiny.”

That being said, he has stressed that leaving the Gunners on a temporary basis was very much the right decision.

“Without a doubt I can say that the decision to return to Zenit was correct. First of all, I am now playing regularly. Secondly, it’s hometown. Third, Zenit has ensured me of everything so that my thoughts are focused only on football.”

Given the arrival of Lukas Podolski, the burgeoning talent of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, the signing of a new deal by Tomas Rosicky and the fact Arsenal can still recoup some of the initial outlay paid for Arshavin, it seems unlikely the Russian will be on the books at the Emirates next term.

We’ll just have to see how it pans out, but for now, fair play to the little man; it’s nice to see someone winning something.


  1. Come back Arsh, all is forgiven lol

    If he’s happy to sit on the bench and be an impact sub in his preferred position and not on the wings ARSENE! then i’ll happily take him back.

    Form is temporary, Class is not!!!

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    • Played out wide – lets game pass him by. Looks like he wants to be doing anything other than playing football
      Played in his favoured position during fa cup/carling cup games against lesser opponents – still lets the game pass him by and continues to look disinterested.

      He either wants to play for Arsenal and give his all, whether he is asked to play centrally, out wide or even as a fullback (whatever is needed) or he wants to just have a nice wage and sit on the bench then complain and go back home.

      His cheeky persona became a non-entity in terms of football before this season and his laziness was tiresome as soon as Herbert Chapmans statue moved more in a gust of wind than he did in some games. As with Adebayor, Nasri, etc.. before him and Chamakh, etc now… I only want players that actually want to play for the club.

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  2. Sitting on the bench would see him resort back to the frustrating player we are all used to. Sell him on to Zenit and we’ll get some money back.

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  3. Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    • If you mean Aaron Ramsey then he is a box-to-box midfielder (the position he played in when he first joined and his position in the Cardiff team that made us sign him in the first place) and not an advanced playmaker/attacking midfielder (the position he has been filling in due to Fabregas leaving and Wilshere being injured).

      These digs at Ramsey really are becoming boring now

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      • I’m sorry if it is boring for you talking about Ramsey like that and I m not against giving chances to young players, but what s too much its too much. To cut the story short, just look at stat and you ll see that when he s not playing arsenal is winning. Pushing him to play it is one of bigger problems this team had this season. Hope he won t play Sunday.
        Year 2004, Fabregas played among the big guys and nobody questioned him as far as I remember.

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      • It’s just the latest bandwagon to jump upon, it never used to happen like this. If Gus Caeser got grief it was because he’d proved himself to be terrible over 3 years, today you lose form for a couple of months and you are written off and have foul abuse thrown at you. Perhaps the reason we have a constant scapegoat albeit Song or Theo or Ramsey is that we all read blogs and listen to podcasts where self proclaimed experts have their opinion. We either agree or disagree with them but battle lines are drawn and we take sides (sitting on the fence is strictly forbidden). We are all guilty of having are opinions affected by mass hysteria but sometimes i find it best to take a step back and judge players on what I see not what I’m told. The media would still have us believe Kos is shit and TV great, but analysis of their performances don’t bear that out. The media would have us believe the way to sort out our defence is sign Gary Cahill, whereas the reality is its the guys in front of the defence that are a big part of the problem and signing Franco baresi isn’t going to resolve it.

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      • You don’t know what you’re talking about (as usual) Ramsey barely played centre midfield for Cardiff. He played Left wing, right back and all over the place generally. It was at arsenal that they decided he was a CM.

        I don’t mind the digs at Ramsey, its because he’s not performing yet being picked. What really, really enraged me was the booing of Arshavin and those comments. Which are shameful. I’m not saying don’t support Ramsey, im just saying until he gets his form back the fans are dead-right to be upset with Wenger.

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      • But he isn’t Fabregas, was never bought to be or replace Fabregas, plays naturally in a different position to Fabregas and has a completely different playing style to Fabregas.
        Name me 3 midfielders who were as good as Fabregas at 16… He is special talent and one that Wenger helped to create.

        People who continue to compare the 2 actually show themselves up as having little knowledge about our players and their best positions.

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      • I think one of the main reasons I get so frustrated at constant Ramsey criticism is that he gives his all on the pitch. Yes this hasn’t been his best season but that injury not only lost him a years playing but seems to have lost him ttwo years confidence. He’s an Arsenal player, still young and just needs to find his form again. Not every player is going to be a Chambo or Cesc, look at late bloomers like Henry for example. And if anyone is going to get that potential out of a player then it will be Arsene Wenger.

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      • Nobody s even thinking of comparing Fabregas and Ramsey. There was a big reason of putting Fabregas in the 1st team at that age. He was a great talent, and he played well. Those both facts are important and Ramsey is not playing good and I’m not alone with that impression (how it looks on this forum – listen to the stands).
        Also I see that Cygans right foot thinks he knows football game. I think football is not a huge huge science and just young people likes to make it that way. I agree with some other blogger who says: Don’t read about football – watch it! Example: if you read and watch english media too much you can get an impression that 5pur2 are great team with a great manager and that they were really serious title contenders playing great football with smart strategies. Do you think it is true? Or that Terry is great? Footballers like Ramsey, Milner or Barry are one of the reasons why english national team is poor for last couple of decades. I know, I know R is Welsh but i wrote “like him”. Also those who’s in love with players like Milner or Burton or even Parker are the same ones who hate not-english-enough Arsenal !
        Future will show! Next season there will be no place for Ramsey and Arshavin in Arsenal 11 and they won t be on the bench too. So all Ramsey lovers would go on Aston Villa forum or 5pur2 where he will be (I hope) loaned next season. 😉

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      • I am absolutely sick of these fans who support Arsenal but whinge about almost every player in the squad. If half the fans had their way we would have sold RvP two seasons ago. I don’t care how bad they are playing but if they give it their all and wants to play for the Arsenal, I’ll always stand behind them!

        Get behind the player and help them reach form not help to destroy their confidence.

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  4. It’s all very well having ‘impact’ subs.. players that are good, but not quite good enough for the 1st XI, but can come on and inject something to a tiring team.. but the truth is it doesn’t work for some players and Arshavin is one of those players.

    It’s nice to think that if we pay someone enough then they’ll act professionally enough to perform at their top level whenever asked, but psychology in sport is a strange beast and unless someone is starting regularly they very often don’t find their form in the way that Solskjaer or more recently Park can at United.. and possibly the Ox here, although it’s too early to tell.

    You can see Wenger trying it with Ramsey and Gervinho at the moment.. starting them in games when perhaps their form doesn’t merit it, trying to kick start their confidence etc and he did it with Stewart Little as well. But sometimes it just won’t work for players and it’s best to see them go. So long Arshavin, I’ll always remember you for Anfield 🙂

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    • Cesc wont be up for sale as we have a 50% sell on fee and right of first refusal.

      Arshavin is a fine player who did really do some good things for us and he deserves to go somewhere where he can play his favoured position regularly. All the best Andrey

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      • The way events surrounding Cesc have panned out is quite remarkable. Arsenal has struggled to match the wages offered by its title rivals, yet last summer it loses its most valuable player for a knocked down transfer fee to his hometown club who just had to have “their” player back after Arsenal “stole” him. But they are actually paying Cesc less money.

        Cesc’s “hometown club” of course is Barcelona, a team hyped nearly all season as possibly the greatest club side of all time and seemingly winning silverware at will. Far from being a bench warmer behind his fellow world cup winning international teammates, Cesc slots right in to the First XI. He’s training with friends from his academy days under the tutelage of one of Barca’s legendary players and Cesc’s footballing idol, Pep Guardiola. The prospects are looking good that this dream situation will be unchanged or the foreseeable future. All is right in Cesc’s World.

        Fast forward to the end of the season. Barca has fallen short in the CL. They were done in the league by arch rivals Real Madrid and Barca surrendered the league title to Madrid, too. What’s more, out of no where, Guardiola has quit! Now, improbably, Barca is rumored to want to shake up their squad before next season, and several players are said to be available for the right fee, including Cesc!

        It’s a funny game, football.

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  5. i’m really happy for him. bags full of talent, he just needs the right environment. it wasn’t working at arsenal. no one’s fault, really. it’s just the way it goes sometimes. hopefully he can stay at zenit and continue to enjoy his football. and arsenal can use the money from his sale to improve the squad.

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  6. If we can get anything over £5m for him i’d be delighted. He’s old, and has shown his mentality/workrate to be questionable, so I hope Zenit try to make it permanent.

    I would see all the arguments for him being a good impact sub, except I think that for the £75k a week or whatever he’s on, he should be one of our best players. Also he seems like a form player who needs the confidence of AW – not going to happen if he’s just seen as a sub.

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  7. James olley says #afc no longer interested in m’vila. Weird deal this one.
    Then again, olley was the one reporting the podolski medical 2 months ago

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  8. Put him in front of Wilshere – Song and watch him flourish.

    I’ve always maintained the opinion that he is an attacking midfielder, not a winger. This is where he played, and currently plays for Zenit and the national team. His creative brain is wasted on the wing.

    Plus, a lackluster workrate can be tolerated a lot more as an AM, than as a winger. If he becomes lazy, or looses the ball, there’s two midfielders behind him to get it back.

    *Hugs Arshavin #23 jersey*

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    • Spot on about his position! He is wasted at Arsenal. The player doesnt fit. He suits Zenit who play 4-4-1-1 with him just behind the striker. He doesnt have to work defensively as he would need to in the front of a midfiled 3.

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    • I agree, I don’t recall DB10 charging all over the place, he made short runs or wandered into space where he could do damage. I’d love to have seen AA play a season behind RVP but I think that chance has gone sadly.

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    • Sorry, but I will never tolerate a lacklustre workrate. If you have enough natural ability to get in a team without trying then maybe apply yourself and see what happens. Arshavin is not welcome in my eyes.

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  9. I don’t get why he was played on the wing. When we bought him he was an established player who was a real threat through the middle for Russia. We know Wenger likes ‘educate’ his players but Arshavin was 27 when we bought him so I think it’s fair to say in his mind he was an ‘established attacking midfielder’. To effectively retrain him as a winger was something that worked in the early part of his Arsenal career but ultimately his inability to track back amongst other things showed that he doesnt have the work rate to be a winger. I for one would be happy to see him back albeit in a more central attacking role. I won’t go in to how he’d fit in, it gives me a headache just thinking about it but there’s no denying he has got the quality. We just need him rediscover the form he showed at Euro 2008 and in the early part of his Arsenal career. He’ll add strength and depth and could be an important squad player if we are to seriously challenge for the title next year. If we keep Denilson and let Arshavin it just wouldn’t make sense. He will be 31 this year but I feel we are finally getting the mix of youth and experience right.

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  10. Unless we are going to play him in that central attacking/creative role then we should sell him. Out wide he is wasted. As far as wide players go we have Theo, Gervinho, Ox, Podolski, Santos, Miyaichi, Rosicky and Benayoun (admittedly I don’t like those last two out wide, and Benayoun may be leaving).

    Then there is the disastrous experiment of Ramsey out wide too.

    The only way Arshavin can be called a wide player is in reference to his waistline.

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  11. Let him go, he was not really interested and lacked motivation. I’m pleased for him in Russia but I do not think he could cope with the Premiership. It’s a tough place to play week in and out.

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  12. He had the talent no doubt but his attitude at times seamed terrible. At a time we needed battlers he went missing.
    Some players just dont suit some clubs no matter how much talent they have, think this is one of those occasions.
    Good luck to him though really don’t want him back but can’t help like the bloke.

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  13. Wow that is one big foot he’s got! No wonder he looked fucked all the time carrying that around. . . .

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  14. The way Gooners have treated Arshavin is just shameful. He has contributed way more than Aaron Ramsey has yet in his time at the Arsenal; Yet there are apologists above that seem to think that Work=good player.



    Actually when was the last time Ramsey got an assist or a goal? Probably Marseille months ago. Yet it was Arshavin that was booed, in that game against United. Just shameful. I betcha if AA23 was british like Rambo and the Ox you’d all be fawning over him and making up excuses. Personally, Andrey has been my favourite player since Cesc left.

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    • The way Gooners have treated Ramsey is just shameful.

      Do you seriously think giving stick to a very young player who had a terrible injury last season, has been overplayed this season and been forced to play out of position most games makes you look intelligent? Don’t you realise how frightfully boring it is to listen to people riding a bandwagon?

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      • Yeah, leave Ramsey alone. Can only imagine what shite you’ll say about Wilshere and the Ox when they dip in form! You want to see how decent Ramsey is you should watch Ramsey v Scotland, brilliance personified but you cunts will keep going until he leaves! Go fuck yerselves, arseholes!!

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      • Nice language Scottyboy. Niiice boy. Niiiice.
        I would never shit Ox or Wilshere even if they drop in a form but working hard. They are good and humble and cool. Ramsey was never in form or humble on interviews, but had couple of shines. I m not saying he s worst in the world but limited as a player and not good enough for Arsenal. L I M I T E D !
        Lot’s of arsenal fans are annoyed how he played this whole season and how Arsene wants to prove everybody wrong all the time.
        But whats really funny are Ramsey lovers on this blog. I see that you guys would be only ones krejzi for GB team at the Olympics. Football at the Olympics similar to human rights at todays democracy.

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      • I’m devising a game called Bandwagon Bingo. Each player has a card with numbers on it similar to bingo, but each number represents a different member of the Arsenal Squad. When an element of our loyal support turn on a player, you put an X through his number, first one to mark off all his numbers gets a lifetime subscription to Le Grove or The Gooner Moancasts on me.

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    • His last goal was 11th of February 2012 against Sunderland. It was the equaliser that led to us winning 2-1. Arshavin’s one and only league goal this season however came on the 11th of September 2011 but please do go on

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    • What’s with this AA infatuation, end of the day he didn’t produce the goods regardless of where he played.

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  15. Wenger knows d trouble he went thru b4 he cud sign him & every gooner cud recall dat traumati ball & chain saga of how his sinature was secured. A class player no doubt. We were almost 4geting d skills of Rosicky until recently. Get Arshavin back in d team & play him in his position & he’ll thrive. Besides, he gives d team a character. Opponents fear hin, even @ his lowest low!

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  16. tbh, he was played on the wing in his first 2 years and was outstanding – then he becomes shite, and suddenly its all about his position. At Arsenal, no play is fixed rigidly in his position (some would do well to remember what their position is), most of all attack. Pires used to appear all over the place – same with Ljungberg – same with Hleb, Rosicky, Fabregas, Na$ri – don’t really buy that he’s played out of position – he’s just a sloven, lazy mofo – and if we want to implement a ‘defend from the front’ strategy (which the team switches on and off inexplicably) akin to Barcelona, then every attacking midfield – on the wings and through the middle- has to do a defensive job for the team.

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  17. This is a little misleading. First, AA23, although he featured in 9 matches for Zenit, only started in 7 and was substituted in 5. Admittedly, he scored 3 times, but his assists were way down on what we get at Arsenal.

    What’s more, on his arrival, the Zenit manager – one ‘lucky’ Luciano Spalletti – assessed Arshavin as too unfit to play a full 90 minutes. Having said that, in his last few matches he’s been not only lively, but arguably Zenit’s best player.

    If we’re going to be able to assess what the soon-to-be 31-year-old (May 29) can do, we’re going to have to wait for the Euros. But with our new benchmark for 31-year-olds the re-energized Tomas Rosicky, I doubt we’re going to be that impressed.

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  18. Is it just me, or did his downward slope start when he played the current RVP role? His first 4 months here were sensational, and I just can’t get the Arshavin out of my mind.
    After that stint in front, where he didn’t do much (can’t really fault him), he lost that bit of confidence and daring that all good attacking midfielders need. He got scared to shoot, scared to run at people, and eventually put some of the shittiest shifts in an Arsenal shirt. Now that he’s got a bit of that confidence and (good) arrogance back, he may get back to the old ways!
    Still believe in the little Russian! (and love his stupid blog 🙂 )

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    • He was a tad overplayed IMO when we went through a mini-crisis in the forwards department. Then lost it all when he wasn’t played.

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  19. His best moments recently (other than that fantastic cross at Sunderland) came when he drifted into the middle, and he laid on a couple of beautiful assists.

    But the re-emergence of Rosicky gives us that ability anyway and Tomas gets stuck in and puts the graft in as well, so he edges it.

    Good luck to him should he go. Old dears and women motorists of England will breathe a collective sigh of relief.

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  20. ok so here’s the thing, I haven’t missed him much since we left, thanks to yossi and his incredible work rate i don’t think AA would have made much difference
    However having AA back as a squad player on the bench for the occassional game sounds attractive BUT if his laziness was so bad as a first team regular starter, why the hell would we want him on the bench to just come on and pull faces?

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  21. I will keep him. A rejuvenated Arshavin is what we wanted before. But if the choice is there i will play him as a cam better creativity than anyone else and will keep song and vermaelen on their heels to track back so they dont drift out too much out of their position.

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    • He’s only rejuvenated because he’s getting what he wants. Over here, he has consistently refused to put in the effort, and will do so again if we bring him back.

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  22. That’s what happens when fans don’t boo their players , Good for him ,he should stay ,Arsenal ‘fans’ don’t like him

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  23. Odd how playing the mopey Russian in his preferred position in his hometown team could spark a revival….. /sarcasm. Maybe he’s actually trying there. If the movitivation to play first team football at one of the greatest clubs in the world isn’t enough for you and hasn’t been for the past 2 seasons since Russia failed to qualify then good riddance. Let him finish his career in the glorious spectacle that is Russian league football.

    Sell him for as much as we can and buy Belhanda!!!!

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  24. What has happened to the Arseblog symbols…. Have anyone else’s gone yellow/green and black or is it just mine?

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    • for all talent arshavin has he isnt suited to the pl end off story,

      nothing to do with arsene wenger,in england you need to give everything for 90mn in a very physical league arshavin hive us 5 mn of magical every match ,it isnt enough for the next 85 mn you play with 10 players because he watch the rest of the game walking around

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  25. guys in plain truth about criticism of Ramsey is the ignorance of wenger of not resting him and mind you every game he starts disaster struck.he is young and needs some encouragement but the coach is not helping by opting to start him regularly.normally as a coach, when you start a player its that you want to build his confidence but this is not the case with Ramsey and tell you what wenger is also surprised. away from that,guys what do you think will if next season we do not win a trophy? I’m all optimistic but you never know…

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    • It’s not like Wenger has had much in terms of options. If Wilshere was fit, Ramsey would have been introduced back into the side slowly. Ramsey doesn’t pick himself and right now, I feel that Stoke have infiltrated our online community and started booing him from the inside. Dirty orc bastards.

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    • Maybe his confidence would be better if certain fans don’t turn him into a scape goat when its not just him thats playing badly.

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  26. Good players in weak leagues look amazing….said so yesterday…..more proof if needed. “Bring back Arshie…yum yum lick lick” Rubbish.

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  27. Don’t understand this “play him behind the striker etc” business. Yossi (whom I see as usually playing in a similar positiong to AA) showed us that with a little hardwork, having a midfielder on the wing is possible.

    The fact that Arshavin could not find his mojo on the left says more about the player than the system.

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  28. given the 25 man limitation on squads + our injury record, i’d have thought that the management team at the arsenal would prize versatility over many other assets a player might have

    so, if our favourite meerkat limits his options by only excelling in one, highly specific, role, then it’s probably reasonable to expect him to be moved on in favour of a player who would kill just to walk onto the pitch in an arsenal jersey. and hopefully has a modicum of ability, i suppose.

    all this dogs’ abuse being heaped on Rambo is just fucking weird. it’s almost as if some people want to advertise their stupidity by slating their own player for no good reason.

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  29. An extremely talented player who’s had great moments with Arsenal but had disproportionate criticism coming his way. He was a match winner kind of guy, Arshavin. He’s won some matches almost singlehandedly for us, and even that day when he scored 4 at Anfield, his efforts were let down by our dodgy defending. Lately some “fans” were expecting him to defend as well – when clearly it never was his strength. That last Man United match epitomises it all: booing him onto the pitch before even touching the ball and that avalanche of criticism for a goal conceded which everybody decided to blame him for.

    The booing, in particular, whether it’s him, Eboue or Ramsey, is one of the most disgraceful things I’ve seen by Arsenal “fans”.

    Anyway, I wish best of luck to Arshhhh.

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    • I don’t see criticism being given out fairly with fan favourites. When Szcz was dodgy they blame one of the defenders. When Ramsey was playing badly they ignored the rest of the midfield.

      If Vermaelen was to be in Ramsey shoes right now people would just shrugged it off. Its almost illogical some fans saying that Ramsey will never be good enough to play for the Arsenal. If they can see the future surely they should be buying Lotto tickets rather than on a forum criticising Rambo.

      Then theirs a lack of praises for players doing something right. Gibbs resurgence in LB after injuries seems to be ignored or when Walcott finally makes a good pass or when Djourou remain relatively solid when we had an injury crisis in CB last season.

      Surely as fans we should be looking more on the positives rather than loom on the perpetual negative.

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    • is the home and away avatar thing random, or can we make rabid and illogical assumptions about the poster depending on whether the @ is red/white or yellow/blue?

      the latter please kthxbye

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    • Sorry but Arshavin is not our problem anymore. Although I respect him but he was lost lately. He ll stay with Zenit.
      Ramsey is!

      Sunday, hoping for 4 4 2:
      Jenks Kos Verm Santos
      Ox Rosicky Song Benayun
      Walcott Rvp

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      • I don’t think AW is going to try out 4-4-2 with Theo coming back from a hamstring injury in a must win game, don’t ask me why, it’s just a funny feeling I have.

        I’d like to see Le Coq in Artetas position but guess he’ll be RB. The Ox instead of Theo, who could be used as an impact sub if needed, too risky to start him in my opinion (which is based on no real knowledge of his injury or
        Physical condition) 🙂

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      • It will be cool to see Coq in the midfield but maybe not for the last game of the season. And I won’t mind if he plays RB. I would go for 4 4 2 cos I’m littlebit worried after last couple of games, and if Walcott is not 100% fit I would even put Chamakh from the 1st minute. He looked fine in the last two games when he entered at the end. Maybe it is he’s moment to do something this season.

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  30. Ramsey has always been my favourites,though his form has seat dip in d mediocritical stage dat no body expect,critisizing hm wil make make him fight for his form,take for instance when theo was critisize,his game change and he started doing fine.arsene has a lot to do in restoring rambo confidence.

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  31. I don’t understand this statement, ” Zenit has ensured me of everything so that my thoughts are focused only on football.” Is there anything going on off field?

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  32. I find this statement interesting: “…the midfielder has since rediscovered his form and been an important cog in Luciano Spalletti’s squad.” Spalletti made a useful player of Arshavin when Wenger couldn’t? Just sayin’.

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  33. Tomas Rosicky is shit,he’s a deadwood,he’s not Arsenal class,he doesnt deserve to wear the Arsenal shirt.ohh wait that was some 4,5,6 months ago,he’s now our april player of the month,says a lot about we supposed arsenal should get behind the team even when they’re losing and leave Ramsey alone as he’s now the scapegoat ever since AA23 got an escape route to his home town.Some idiots even blamed him and Gibbs for last weekends lose when chezzer and T.V5 were to blame and I even cant believe no one spoke about to clear penalty appeals that the ref waved away,so much about being fans,we are now more of a disgrace

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  34. From where I’m sitting, it seems that arshavin goes back to Zenit and suddenly starts trying again. We all knew he had the quality, it was just the application in the face of adversity that was missing. For that reason alone I don’t want him back.
    On another note, the booing against him and others (such as Ramsey) is pretty disgraceful. Even if they are playing badly, abusing them won’t help, it will just further shatter their confidence. And the favouritism that goes on is verging on the ridiculous: against norwich, the Ox ran straight off the pitch and somehow got a round of applause, I’m not trying to take a pop at him but can you imagine the abuse Ramsey would get in an identical situation?

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