Wenger on pundits and brainwashing

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Arsene Wenger’s comments about pundits brainwashing people have been doing the rounds this morning, often with headlines that tie them into his future or his increasingly shaky relationship with some Arsenal fans.

However, he does appear to have been talking much more generally about the way punditry can affect the conclusions people draw from games.

He cited a re-watching of the incredible, but somewhat cheaty, 6-1 Barcelona enjoyed over PSG last week in the Champions League.

“For example last night I watched the last 20 minutes of Paris Saint-Germain against Barcelona again,” he said.

“It’s interesting once you see all the conclusions that come out of the game. The same people that speak after the game said with 10 minutes to go that Paris Saint-Germain were absolutely outstanding and 10 minutes later they were absolutely rubbish.

“It’s always interesting to take a distance, because people keep your eye and brainwash you with what you think is right. I think it’s always very interesting.

“You cannot live in an isolated world, because when you are a football player, even if you don’t read, people tell you what people say. Like in your job as well [journalists], when you write an article people say ‘that’s rubbish’, ‘that’s great’ or ‘that’s not great’.

“You cannot live in a world where you cannot be influenced by everything. Sometimes it confirms what people say. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s down to me to take the right distance.

“You don’t necessarily always need to agree with everybody. I managed about 2,000 games – I might know a little bit.”

So, nothing about Arsenal fans being brainwashed and nothing really to tie to his own future. Just, you know, a manager talking about football.

What a world.

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103 Comments on "Wenger on pundits and brainwashing"

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gooner of Oz

As one of the protesters I’m not moved by the Lincoln result nor by the 2 Bayern hammerings. What makes me want a change is believing we could be better and finally “challenge” for some real trophies with a some new thoughts and a fresh start. We’ve been stuck where we are with the same old problems for many years…

Southpaw

A new approach is most logic when the currnet one keeps failing

Double98

When Stan Kroenke hires a new manager he will Listen to his new ideas and then tell him “here’s your top 6 budget, get into the top 4, good lad”.

And that new manager won’t have Sanchez and ozil.

John C

Our budget’s on par with Chelsea and more than Liverpool’s and Spurs, so go speak nonsense somewhere else.

Sanchez cost more than Costa
Ozil cost more than Hazard
Xhaka cost more than Kante
Mustafi cost more than Sideshow Bob.

And before you go talk about wage bill, what they don’t do is over pay several below par squad players like Jenkinson, Debuchy, Gibbs, Coquelin, El Neny, Iwobi, Gabriel and instead pay proven quality the going rate.

Gus Caesar

Think you’re the one speaking nonsense here John. Our wage bill might be on a par with Chelsea’s but our overall ‘budget’ certainly isn’t. And our budget is certainly less than Man Utd and Man City’s, so presumably you’d have no issue with us finishing 3rd every season, yes?

clins

spurs and liverpool with lower budget are ahead of arsenal. leicester with a fraction of budget won the league . this shows arsenal is underperforming badly . how many teams in the league can claim they have a player as good as sanchez . we spent 100 million on last window alone, so dont talk about wage disparities .

board is willing to spend big and sign good players as seen by last three transfer windows. but if wenger dont know anything to do with them then it doesnt even matter if we have lionel fkn messi , we wont win the league with wenger as manager

Dan Hunter

A high budget will only get you so far. You can spend £89 million on a Pogba, but still be a perennial 6th place team, or you can spend less than us like Spurs and still have a stronger first team. The point is, we have a substantial enough budget to buy top class players. We have spent more than Chelsea to fill positions, yet our players have not performed as well as theirs, except maybe Alexis. We could have got Fabregas instead of Ozil yet we decided against it, even though Fabregas only cost £27million while Ozil cost £42.5m. Fabregas has been the better player. Hazard cost £32million as did Costa. Kante cost £32million and Xhaka £35m. Kante is obviously the far better purchase. So, I do not understand this argument that having a crazy budget like City or United is a huge advantage, unless you go for a real proven player.

In the current climate, there are very few players a team can buy in the upper price bracket who will genuinely improve the top teams, and they are all taken by the top sides in Europe. Beyond the likes of Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, Neymar etc, we can compete to buy players.

The real difference is in coaching and management, tactics and efficiency. I genuinely believe our squad is ready to compete at the highest level with a couple of minor tweaks. It is obvious we are not doing the fundamentals. It is the manager’s job to ensure the defence is resilient and that the set up is meticulous, yet we play like schoolboys.

1fromcali

to clins

So you pick out this particular season which isn’t over yet to point that out??? lol

Where did Liverpool finish last season? before that? and the one before that?

Lets repeat this with spurs shall we??

Lol because Leicester wins the title shows every other club they are doing it all wrong. Wait, where is Leicester now? forget it the season isn’t over yet so lets not go there.

Chelsea, ManU, ManC, still spent more on players.

uncle D

I still blame the media for this commotion at Arsenal! Don’t talk of inflation to people that just read tabloids, it’s a waste of time trying to explain. Best thing sometimes is to patiently watch it play out. At least the Boss is no fool! Lol I personally think Arsenal should limit the Wengerout protesters outside the stadium, some people just want to watch the game and have paid not to be disturbed! Wengerout protesters Outofthestadium!

Too Drunk To Be Offside
Too Drunk To Be Offside

Fans who pay money to go watch those games can decide what banners to bring inside the stadium and what slogans to shout.

If the protest shatters your illusion that Wenger is the greatest manager on earth despite not having challenged for the league for over a decade and making Arsenal a joke in Europe, then so be it.

Not to mention Wenger’s abysmal record against the big teams. This pic says all there is to be said –comment image

That record says only one thing, tactical ineptness.

uncle D

What is football to you?

uncle D

On behalf of Mr Wenger and Arsenal, I beg your forgiveness. Let us all move on. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Too Drunk To Be Offside
Too Drunk To Be Offside

#WengerOut is not about forgiveness. Its about the future of Arsenal, which is not safe in the hands of Wenger.

Football seasons end up being one giant game of Groundhog Day in March every season. For too long the money excuse has been thrown around. Wenger has money to spend.

Xhaka cost more than Kante. Hell Mustafi cost more than Costa!

Secondly even if one were to assume that Arsenal are poor beggars competing with richer rivals, football is a game played on the field and not in the transfer market, that Wenger’s supporters hide behind.

There is still plenty of room to beat teams with richer players by being defensively organised and being tough to break down. Sadly, Arsenal under Wenger have long forgotten what defensive organisation means and generally crumble and collapse at the first hint of pressure.

Wenger couldn’t set a team to be defensively tough if a billion dollars rode on it.

Secondly don’t you see that good players who Arsenal can afford reject Arsenal for other clubs.

Ibra FREE, moved to United.
Kante well within reach moved to Chelsea instead. (Wenger admitted he went for Kante).

Players don’t see Arsenal as a club where they can meet their ambitions and win the big trophies.

The reason Arsenal no longer get the absolute best players is not because Arsenal don’t have the money, but because the best feel that Arsenal no longer have the ambition.

With the club happy to pay Wenger what they do AFTER not even challenging for the league in 12 years, who can blame them.

#WengerOut

uncle D

I hope you feel better now! We all have great expectations for Arsenal but the reality is what it is. Everyone feels shitty about how things have gone on this season but remember why you watch football and support a club. It should not be what gives you stress but the opposite.

Jesse Saunders

I think you guys should define what you mean by “Cost” when you say that player x cost’s more than player y. This can mean a few different things depending on your definition of the word “cost”.

Let’s take John C’s claim.

“Sanchez (35M-2014) cost more than Costa (32M (2014)
Ozil (42.5M-2013) cost more than Hazard (32M-2012)
Xhaka (30M-2016) cost more than Kante (32M -2016)
Mustafi (35M-2016) cost more than Sideshow Bob.(34M-2016)”

If you are talking about transfer fees, then yes you are correct, some of their players are marginally more expensive then ours. But there is so much more to the overall cost of a player than just the fee.

Let’s look at wages. Sanchez makes only 130K (6.75m) a week while Costa makes 185k (9.62m) a week.
Ozil makes 140K (7.28m) a week, while Hazard makes 200K (10.4m) a week.
Kante makes 110K (5.72m a week (we also tried to sign him) while Granit Xhaka makes 90k (4.7m).
and Mustafi makes 90k (4.7m) while David Luiz makes 120K (6.25m)

In this example, chelsea players cost much more than arsenal players. This trend spans across the entire chelsea roster versus Arsenal as well with some exceptions. If you took those same 8 players over 4 years and added the wages to their transfer fee you would see this.

Sanchez – 62M —– Costa – 70.48M
Ozil – 71.65M —– Hazard – 73.6M
Xhaka – 48.8M —– Kante – 54.88m
Mustafi – 53.8M —– David Luiz – 59M

Chelsea Total – 257.96M
Arsenal Total – 236.25M

So under those circumstances it costs Chelsea about 21million pounds more to have those players. This doesn’t mean that Arsenal are better, there are plenty of other factors. For instance Chelsea sold Luiz at a profit, then bought him back for less, and lets not forget when these players were purchased, the year, the market conditions, how much time was left on their contract and the stature of said player. All of these have significant effects on the players, and clearly Chelsea have two more premier league trophies in that time than we do.

Try and understand that we tried to sign hazard and Kante. Why we don’t match wages, or we do not seem to attract the top talent anymore, your guess is as good as mine.

The point is, if you are going to make a statement like that about the COST of players, please specify what you mean by cost.

1fromcali

Are you kidding? Chelsea has like 100 players under contract. They have so many players under contract out on loan overpayed.

Ozil is also older then Hazard. Also transferred year later then Hazard. Of course facts like that don’t matter.

Sanchez barely cost more then Costa. Your right though he did cost more then Costa.

Tell me what clubs don’t have squad players being paid more or less then what we perceive their value to be? BTW

uncle D

How much do Willan, Pedro and Moses get? Just curious! Compared to Iwobi, Ox and Theo?!

Andy Mack

The chavski squad has very few that came through their ‘system’.
Many of their loaned out players cost a lot (for their age experience as well).
How much would Gibbs, Bellerin, Coquelin and Iwobi have cost.
Chavski have consistently spent big across many years.
You can’t just chuck money at new players for couple f years and expect them to become a team. That takes years and Chavski have been spending for years.
Does that explain why we’ve imploded again? NO but it should make people sit back and realise that many of our ‘last 12 seasons’ we’ve seriously over achieved. It’s only the last couple where we really have a squad that’s underachieved…

gooner of Oz

Ok Stan as an American businessman owner of many clubs and sport with no sporting ambition is of course one of the many things holding us back. One of the richest clubs both financially and fan base. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt start to change in other parts of the obstacle for good. The least a change would do in short term is the fans will become united again and support their club with one voice. Dont we hate this heated arguments between our own fans?

Futsboller

If a change would actually unite the fans, then it would probably be worth it, but Arsenal fans have a reputation for a reason. Change the manager and we still have these players, many of whom our fans love to hate. If you think a 3-4-3 and a coach undergoing a 90-minute spasm on the sidelines is going to unite this fanbase, you need to think again. Even when we win games and have played well, people are upset. A new manager and new players would give us something new for a while, but it wouldn’t be long before the “same old, same old” took over the conversation. The only thing that will unite Arsenal fans is guaranteed success and guaranteed major titles, things you can’t guarantee.

Kwame Ampadu Down

‘Arsenal fans have a reputation for a reason. ‘

Which reputation would that be? The one for blaming referees, injuries, the FA, other Arsenal fans (not themselves obviously, just you know the ones that don’t agree with them) etc etc for Arsenal not winning the League rather than accepting that their manager/players just haven’t been good enough every season ? I would 100% agree this is a deserved reputation. This is why other fans think Arsenal fans are whingers.

(and yes, quite aware this isn’t what you meant before you point it out)

GunnerYY

I’ve never see Arsenal change the manager, i’m 20-ish btw, so i dont know what you are talking about.
Wenger out movement start growing since 2012-2013, that’s mean our fanbase is patient enough to wait for Wenger to win the league or try to change something.

Heavenly Chapecoense

Can’t we fans buy the club? Some investment wizards can devise a nice model for this.

1fromcali

Why would he sell the club? Value keeps appreciating, revenue keeps increasing, profits are solid. Unless you wanna overpay for the club, whats the point? lol

DB10**

lets not forget that wenger could not get past leicester last time with his small budget. if only he had a few more millions.

Futsboller

We beat Leicester both times last season, the only team to do so.

GunnerYY

Congratulations for being the teams that beat last year champions twice last season.
What a trophy

Futsboller

We were better than 18 other teams last season over an 8-month campaign, and better than all of our direct rivals. It should have been better, but it’s not the abject failure everyone makes it out to be.

Southpaw

Maybe we were. And you see what they did? They all moved on. Chelsea City Liverpool… they all changed up top and see what happened now? No longer you can say that sentence. One season we stood higher and as they were clever enough to move on “we are no longer better than them.” again

John C

It isn’t success either, just less of a relative failure.

Faisal Narrage

We beat Leicester last season twice, whoop.

I guess you feel that we did the Double last season.

Futsboller

Fair enough, 2nd place is a failure. We should get to hiring Mr. Guaranteed Success then.

Futsboller

Can we rationalize any form of success in a season aside from winning the big trophies?

Faisal Narrage

Can you ever make an argument without using a strawman?
You boasting about us beating Leicester twice and being the only team to do, and us claiming it isn’t an achievement, does NOT equate that 2nd place is a failure.

Oh, and in that season, 2nd WAS a failure.

Deano

Shame we didn’t do as well against everyone else then.

Sam

We. Beat Leincester home and away last season. About Liverpool a d spurs budgets being lower than ours… I can’t even remember spurs finishing the league above us, Liverpool maybe once or twice in the last 10yrs
Man u and city are just too much above us in their budgets But I still think arsenal has been trying to retain players the last few seasons. So sad that Alexis will leave this summer

1fromcali

Either could 19 other clubs. Whats the point of that statement?

Southpaw

We are always amoung top 6 football teams in the world financially. And you never see Wenger blame the owners for not making that money available (he blames everything else with no hesitation referees, players, bad luck, injuries ect) he is the man who always said we need no WC striker ect. I never heard a news in which it says Wenger wants club to sign a player and the club wont give him money. Its himself who says market is crazy and stuff. I domt know much about Kronke but even if you are right at least people like allegri can insist on paying up as the real financial powres we are in football. Wenger seems to be in the same mindset you say Kronke has.

1fromcali

Sure, Its really how the world works. Talk shit about your boss publicly. Like that ever works for someone who loves their job.

Yeah some new manager is going to get hired and all of a sudden Kroenke and his business officers are going to say spend away here’s an blank checkbook.

badaab

I’m a bit concerned about stan and new managers, tbh. Look at what happened before and after George Karl at the Kroenke owned denver nuggets NBA team. Granted, there were some health issues there, but when the GM sells your two best players (Anthony and billups), you know there’s something going on. From what I remember reading at those time, one wanted to go, the other didn’t (billups is a denver native).
So yeah, there’s that track record. Kroenke also has done a piss poor job building the Colorado rapids MLS side as well (though the stadium is quite nice). The side won the MLS cup and then all the good players and the manager were shipped out for profits.

Too Drunk To Be Offside
Too Drunk To Be Offside

Agree 100%. The desperation of Wenger to leave is born out of net culmination of what has gone on around the club for the past decade or so.

Arsenal have not challenged for the league even once, and not in one season has the title challenge gone beyond February.

More often than not, its finished by November. Thats not good enough. Additionally Arsenal have been reduced to being a joke in Europe.

The team treats UCL qualification as the be all and end all of football and I puked when I saw Arsenal team delirious with joy about sneaking above the team from Shite Hart Lane.

It was good to finish above them, but the celebration were greatly disproportional in light of what had been a terrible season all around.

Under Wenger Arsenal have been reduced to celebrating mostly incosequential achievements. Top 4 finish, finishing above Sp*rs, etc are good but are not achievements to celebrate.

UCL qualification is a stepping stone to greater things, but Arsenal under Wenger have failed to take the next step for a decade now.

This article sums up the problems of lack of ambition at Arsenal beautifully – https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/how-arsene-wenger-slowly-destroyed-arsenals-ambition
https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/how-arsene-wenger-slowly-destroyed-arsenals-ambition

Rooks

I’m only numb to arsenal now because of the dismissive treatment of fans by arsene and the board and the pretence that the premier league is a genuine objective.

If arsenal accepted the reality and said as much I might be able to atleast accept we are aiming for top four and have done so consistently. When I think about it that way, this truth has been a growing splinter in my mind.

The club lacks this integrity in my opinion from the owners investment habits, to the boards inaction, to Wenger’s poor transfer record in recent years to the players all talk no action routine. The lack of integrity of this clubs leadership will destroy it if allowed to.

John C

More arrogant musings by the arrogant one.

Now he says people can’t make up their own mind about anything without being told, especially football related. I suggest he spends more time on message boards like this which are full of people calling out pundits for the amount of drivel they speak. Then he’ll see that people are more than capable of forming their own opinion.

Tom Gun

You’re seriously suggesting that a manager of a Premier league club, let alone one whose role encompasses much more than the normal manager’s role, spends his time on message boards?! Joker!

John C

No, i’m suggesting that people can make up their own opinion, as demonstrated by viewing this message board.

Danny

There are people out there who would suggest that you’re a fucking idiot.

I disagree with your comments, but I’d never put it in such offensive terms.

John C

What a thoughtful, intelligent riposte.

Say’s more about you than it does about me!

Southpaw

@Danny I wholeheartedly agree with @JohnC. It reflects your own cluture when you cant take a different opinion. And it shows the absence of any civilized culture when you go that far to abuse him with such words for it. It also shows your low level of intelligence. These are some scientific facts for an embarrassing fellow gunner.

Viva la Prof

That is exactly what it looks like to me a bunch of plastic fans beeing led by so called sports journalists and even worse that diabolical shit show arsenal fan tv. 200 attention seeking nobody’s isn’t a protest, it a shower of cunts, yet it was all over the news.. fucking joke !!

Sol

Having played over 2000 games, I expected you to really know better, but 10-2 by Bayern and 3-1 By Liverpool and the defect by city and Chelsea, makes it seem like you dont really know, or maybe you know the true results and they one shown on tv is fake, you know used to brain wash us the supporters

saps

And how many games have you coached, kind sir?
How many victories won?
How many training grounds built for arsenal off your savvy?
How many years of your life signed off for a 300mil loan?
Come back, dear sir when you’ve won 20…

Peter

He is the one trying to manipulate opinions. We have been underachieving for quite some time and no other top club gets humiliated as often as we do. Time for change and fresh ideas.

Shyam

It should henceforth be called Wenger speak.. For someone who is so smart and articulate it can get a bit condescending about this whole 20 years experience. Yes we know about it. Yes we have been thankful about it. But if you don’t acknowledge that we have gone out of the round of 16 seven times in a row and you are blaming a refree and not 160 minutes that came before it than you are just taking the piss..three managers have won a premier league title in the last three years. And they are not at their club or they have been fired. I am not saying that we should go down that route but please for the love of good don’t talk about the bayern match as if you played exceedingly well only to lose 10-2

neutral

Yes, but we’ve been in the round of 16 every season and you don’t talk about that do you? Only two other teams….

Sorry, I was practicing Wenger speak

D-Day

The home game hinged on Kos getting red carded and a soft penalty, we were playing well up until that point. We were not given a ‘stonewall’ penalty on Theo and from then onward, it is history. We weren’t annihilated.

Games and teams, live and die on these decisions . . . it’s football.

Andy Mack

It’s telling that both clubs have been charged for the paper on the pitch but AW hasn’t been charged for saying how poor the ref was…

Comedian

Not the right thread but have we appealed for koscielny red card ?

Gus Caesar

Leaving aside the whole Wenger future debate, these are all perfectly valid points. If you only read what had been written about Arsenal lately you would never have a clue that Arsenal are above Man Utd, very close to Sp*rs and City and in the cup semis. You don’t hear anything i about how long its been since Sp*rs or Liverpool last won a trophy when funnily enough that was the only thing you ever heard about Arsenal a few years ago. There’s a media narrative with Arsenal that doesn’t apply to other clubs and I have no doubt whatsoever that it does drive some of the fan’s perspective on how we’re doing. And it will keep happening because Arsenal fans biting is always entertaining to everybody else – we’re the equivalent of the school kid looking to see whether the word ‘gullible’ is in the dictionary.

Frank

It’s true that you don’t often hear about how long it’s been since Sp*rs and the mugsmashers won the league but to be honest both have been on an upwards trajectory recently in contrast to our own, also Sp*rs have never really been a team who regularly win the league. In Liverpools case I think its just been so long that it’s not so much of an expectation anymore, although they did win the CL more recently than we have won the league. In our case I think we hear it so much because we so often seem so close yet don’t seem to manage to do it and thats what brings conjecture and discussion.

Gus Caesar

Fair points but, if it’s true that the narrative goes alongside expectation, why are people still expecting Arsenal will win the league? It’s been 13 years and, as you say, Liverpool have won the CL more recently. And it’s hardly as if our history is full of us dominating the league title. As for Sp*rs, it was the media that was saying there’d been a “power shift” many years ago – how long before an “upwards trajectory” of finishing 3rd to 5th is actually as much a failure as finishing 2nd to 4th?

gee

I agree

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11440878/See-how-long-its-been-since-every-Premier-League-team-has-won-a-major-honour.html

according to that table Spuds have not won a trophy for 9 yrs now – yet when we went 8 yrs without a trophy that is all you heard about, so much so that our players were visibly relived to remove that shitty tag from them, but yet a top 4 team recently that chokes consistently when they near finish line, does crap in Europe gets a free pass every F@**^*g time.

What is sad is the reaction of our fans in all of this, i thought we were better than some of the things ive seen recently but there you go

Gunnerer

This is just proof that fan protests are an excellent fuel for selective media treatment. I understand the sentiment behind change, but I absolutely find the method to demand it ridiculous. Outrage of the fans makes us look weaker than we actually might, demoralizes players for sure, and affects the next result. And most sadly makes us a laughing stock. There are better and less destructive ways to demand change!

gee

I want to win the league as much as the next man but for me the narrative to beat Wenger with changed when we won the FA cup. First it was 8 yrs without a trophy, now its changed to 12,13 14 yrs without the league.

Notice no other team gets a regular tropy-less update, like i said Spuds, Liverpool last won the league when?

when they try and fail, they are treated like a plucky underdog, yet when we fail, we are a laughing stock. Imagine losing to genk what the fall out would be

Alex

Arsène is right: that makes fans booing Özil for the results against Liverpool and Bayern where he didn’t play and praising Sanchez for laughing at his team’s losses…
Sanches is yet to run his 10 km for at least one game while lazy Özil has done it for 14 games (Giroud for 3 games, so don’t tell me about Sanchez’s position on the pitch). And lazy Özil doing more tackles than Xhaka + Coquelin in München.

Blackky Jhide

Forget about pundits people will judge Arsene based on the results and performance of the team which has been abysmal over the years to say the least.

Abdul Omeiza

Football is practical and it’s result-oriented. When a club is not getting the desired results, people who care abt such club’s well-being would raise alarm. There’s time for everything,Arsene Wenger has done wonderfully well for Arsenal no doubt. But there’s time for everything. This is time to go and try his techniques somewhere else

Lord Nicki B

It’s not just about the lack of “fight” that some pundits have said we lack.

It’s just that we’re actually bored by the cycles of Arsenal seasons.

Start off or End the season brightly. No sustained challenges. A CL rout. Finish in the top 4, give fans some hope and repeat.

I’m plainly and simply just bored of this cycle.

I know some fans like to point out how Utd have fared after SAF or that we should be thankful for stability, but fuck it, let’s have something new to talk about, let’s have something different, maybe some seasons without UCL qualification, maybe a Europa league run.

Just sod it, let’s have something different, I respect the man, but really, sod it.

Let’s have someone new, let’s once and for all see how much the upper management are uninvolved, let’s just get out of our “safe” Arsene bubble.

Gus Caesar

So we should have someone new because you’re bored? You see, I think a lot of people think exactly this way and I think its symptomatic of the type of fan that we (and football in general) got lumbered with in the late 90s. The idea of a supporter supporting a club solely for the enjoyment that they get out of supporting a club seems to have died. People want to be entertained now and are upset that they aren’t also supporting a soap opera of a club. I personally will always support The Arsenal because I love The Arsenal and I would be outraged if the club started making decisions simply to please a few bored twenty-somethings with nothing better to do with their lives. If football and The Arsenal are that boring or make you that upset then you’re probably better off finding something better to do with your life.

Gooner223

Shhhhh. Stop making sense.

It’s the same for me. I’ve always been a diehard Arsenal fan. My allegiance to the Club is not defined by silverware or pissing contests … I simply love the Club and have supported it regardless of the weather, regardless of outcomes in ‘big’ games, regardless of Wenger IN/OUT – and will continue to do so until I take my dirt nap. The problem is that some fans need Arsenal to be the £1000/night call girl draped off their arm for all to see, being the player, being the man, woo hoo, look at me, look at what I got. Yet, most just see some bloke with a whore ……….

Gus Caesar

It all just makes me wonder what these message boards would’ve been like in the days of Terry Neill, Don Howe and the low points under George Graham (of which there were many). The days when I watched dross like Niall Quinn, Colin Pates, Eddie McGoldrick and Mark Flatts. I will never forget being in the Clock End in March 1996 when only 18,000 saw us lose to Wimbledon and we had Bergkamp, Wright and Merson in the team then.
We’ve developed a fickle following as a result of us being spoilt by the riches brought about by one man.

Dixon's Awesome Own Goal
Dixon's Awesome Own Goal

Was that one man Herbert Chapman? Or George Graham? Or maybe David Dein or Danny Fiszman? Or the Hillwood dynasty?

John C

I think he’s talking about Rupert Murdoch and Sky

Thisisme

Why do people say we are underachieving? Based on financial power etc are performing about right. Wenger is getting hammered for being amazingly consistent. Consistency is boring is guess.

gooner of Oz

Consistency is good when you are already on the top. We have been consistent in a make believe way to the top. It is more like being stuck.

GunnerYY

We are in our comfort zone, finish 4th, qualify for CL, get in round-16, get the money, try to win FA cup, repeat it again next year.
We are not progressing and also not regressing, we are stagnant. I think it’s not good because while we enjoy our 4th place every year the other teams try their hardest to win the league and if it continues it’s just the matter of time we’ll be out from top 4 and forced to leave our comfort zone.

Andy Mack

In the last 10 years we’ve come 4th 5 times. Yes we haven’t won the league, but 5 times above 4th…

Gus Caesar

My personally view is that now is the time to move on from Wenger. However, you are absolutely right, he has not underachieved at any point in his time at Arsenal, we’ve always been at least par for the course. The issue for me is not that I don’t appreciate the consistency, it’s that the on-pitch performances could be so much better and aren’t because of the same rudimentary mistakes, the same neglect of the defence and the same over-indulgence of under-performing players. At some point we will all have to move on from Wenger, I have simply run out of reasons for why it shouldn’t be now.

bleh

beautifully said

Cliff Bastin

Blogs suggestion to have a “mute commentary” option is what we need. Sky can even research which particular commentators we are always muting and remove them from the roster! It’s a win-win! Make it happen sky!

badaab

I will typically choose to watch a match in a foreign language or on mute when my commentary options are fox soccer, bt sport, or anything with Martin tyler, Tony gale, etc.
The people speaking foreign might still be cunts, but I’ve no idea what they’re saying.

loose_cannon

I think he has a point, generally, but when you watch the full 90 it’s harder to get conned. I remember against Man City, Neville was praising our tactics of sitting deep when we were 1-0 up but as soon as we conceded, we were rubbish and didn’t have a clue. Truth is we were rubbish the whole time! When pundits draw conclusions their perspectives are heavily influenced by the final result to the detriment of actual analysis, you can tell that most wouldn’t make it as managers at the top level despite what their mates at The Sun think

Rebeldispatch

In the time of Trump I do not think it is unreasnoable to sugest that the media and punditry have a major influence whether the boss can hold back that tide of public opinion is another matter entirly

Pedant

So the minority that shout loudest (see Trump’s support) should win?

badaab

Modern media has always been about ratings, and sensationalism gets eyes and clicks, generating ad revenue.
if you want to blame someone (american) for the stupidity of it all, look further back in history to Ronald Reagan and his administration removing the ‘fairness doctrine’ on us news in the 1980s- then look to the Clinton administration in 1996 for their part in thr telecommunications deregulation act which allows companies to buy out all competition across platforms: those two are what created the shit storm we have today.

hahahaha

As Nevile stated, I hope he proves everyone wrong next season and show that he’s not past it. For the first 50 mins vs Bayern he showed he has exactly what it takes and that he’s not outdated. We could have been three up imo if it weren’t for that ref and some chances we should have tucked in. We made them look like sunderland. How about those performances against manu home last season, liverpool a couple of years back (4-1), and chelsea recently. We can boss the game in pretty much every aspect. The only problem is replicating that incisive passing and scintillating play we make our name from. He definitely isn’t past it.The players need to be up for it every game! Id give him next season and I certainly hope the players step up. Post liverpool does anyone remember Cech say that we had the same game plan throughout both halves? But we know how we did in the first half with only one shot on target (I think). The second half was much improved and the players came out fighting and got a goal back, which wasn’t enough obviously. But that itself speaks volumes. Imagine if we played like that from the beginning? Wehave the quality of bossing any team on our day, which is something we should build on not destroy. Face it, we won’t be able to to do that when the next manager comes in. Putting big team to the sword before half time is very rare. Arsene is the brains behind it all. He is still a tactical genius.

BrGooner

Cmon man, you can’t use a game that Bayern had already a 5×1 lead as a reference… That obviously makes the team a lot more relaxed and (as we saw many times when we were winning comfortably) the other team starts playing better

toma

Guy talks about pundits but has no qualms taking up a job for French TV in the off season.Please Mr. Wenger leave our club already

toma

Guy talks about pundits but has no qualms taking up a job for French TV in the off season.Please Mr. Wenger leave our club already.

Paul Davis

what Gus Caesar said at 11:21 today

gloryhunter

I actually dont know why some are reluctant to change!!
Arsene will eventually have to leave at some point so why not now.
Hes been a great servant but its quite clear that hes no longer up to it, people say hes past it and unable to adapt and stuck in his ways.

Nothing could be further from the truth, he’s adaptation from big strong physical players, to technically gifted yet physically weak players has been he’s undoing.if he didn’t adapt we would probably have won the title a few more times, and the fact that he cant see it is why he needs to leave imo

Jeff

https://streamable.com/vda3g

You should link this Chris Sutton “highlights” video.

gee

that was him on a good day

Andy Mack

Sutton is desperate for money and he knows talking bollock with conviction will get him more work, just like it does with Owen, Redknapp and Carragher…

gooner

Wenger is the most stubborn manager in the league..he doesn’t want to quit even though his glory days are gone. he failed to win major trophies and even got humiliated with the scoreline.the funny thing is he felt 5-0 result against non league team is enough to forget champions league and premier league failure. Wenger is a joke.

gooner

Wenger is the most stubborn manager in the league..he doesn’t want to quit even though his glory days are gone. he failed to win major trophies and even got humiliated with the scoreline.the funny thing is he felt 5-0 result against non league team is enough to forget champions league and premier league failure. Wenger is a joke.

santori

I’ve been saying this for years now.

HE IS ABSOLUTELY correct on this point.

The media employ pundits not on merit but to be controversial.

Your Robbie Savage, Michael Owen, Joey Barton, Chris Sutton even Alan Shearer, Jamie Carragher.

Mostly vacuous individuals, some with successful careers others for the most part mediocre players whose limits all too easily the antithesis of what Arsenal stood ofr.

Of course they have an agenda against the Arsenal. They hate what Wenger stands for.

At every given opportunity, they would stoke the fire of certain segments of our fan base who have frankly been a little FRANKLY ungrateful and classless (toward Wenger) despite legitimate greivances about current performances which have persisted for several years now.

When you look at Liverpool whom these pundits ALWAYS big up, they have been going through the manager merry go round and spending. Bar one lucky CL run with Rafa, they have not won the title in a QUARTER of a century despite these managers coming in and out and look no closer with the media annointed latest genius in Jurgen (I love music from 70 years ago) Klopp.

The same goes for the Spurs, another perrenial favorite of the pack despite again changing managers galore since Wenger’s tenure to no better extent. They haven’t won the title for 50 years (That’s HALF a century) but we are told they are competitive when we are given absolutely no chance of finishing 4ourth or higher for 5 years now.

The same media pack are quite obviously waiting for the day their long due prediction will come through since the last one about us never winning cups anymore was broken with Wenger winning the back to back FA cups and reaching record which we again can surpass this year.

The fickle Arsenal audience who love banners of course want a quick fix to make them feel better. Never mind consequences. Anyone is better than Wenger and he MUST go RIGHT NOW because (as the media trumpets) he is a complete disgrace and Arsenal are a poorly run club.

We did not appoint managers they prescribed you see …geniuses like AVB, Roberto Martinez, Juande Ramos…

They were after all tactically all better than Wenger who is a ‘dinosaur’.

Never mind the same pundits who drone on about Wenger have never managed a club let alone operated in the transfer market.

But some people would prefer to believe the spurious rumours they manufacture about Arsenal’s transfer policies.

IMO the only pundit worth his salt at the moment (ex player variant) is Gary Neville. He actually makes some sense is fairly balanced (not uncritical of Arsene) but crucially, he has had the bollocks to put his money where his mouth was and actually tried management. It wasn’t as easy as he thought.

Now try 21 years and qualifying for CL every effing season never mind the title or going a season unbeaten or 6 FA cups.

Some people take our VERY HIGH minimum finish EVERy season for two decades for granted.

As for the media companies, never you mind about the Arsenal.

The board is doing the right thing. It isn’t panicking or falling into the trap of quick fixes. We do the long view at Arsenal.

The manager may be faltering but we have plenty to fight to end of season still. Now is not the time for messages sent out regarding managerial change. That would have a ridiculous impact on the squad and serve as a distraction.

The owner is the owner. Maybe he is not the perfect owner for us but when in life do you get perfect. In that context, I’d rather he keep silent and leave things he understands less (Footy) to others who do.

The board and the owner (and Wenger) have ensured over recent 12 to 15 year spell that we have grown financially (through continued feature in CL amongst other things) and the stadium build (again on back of Wenger’s success and continuity every season).

What the media should focus is on their rubbish coverage of football. They employ utter morons and get away with it because some people frankly prefer to hear trite these days.

Silent majority…bring out your banners.;)

Matt

Wenger can talk all he wants about fans being brainwashed, but results don’t lie and we haven’t won the PL for more than A DECADE. Change is needed and he’s already 67; he won’t be here for that long anyway.

BrGooner

Can’t believe that some still backing Arsene… Yes, he was one of the greatest coaches in the world, but that’s a big WAS, he is not that coach anymore and results prove that. The only answer I can think is that some are too emotional about he being one of the greatest coaches ever and that makes them too blind to see what’s going on. The only one doing brainwashing here is you Mr Wenger!

Rooks

I think the fact journalists have spun this story as if he was speaking directly about arsenal shows the media will distort context and use targeted emotive language to create outrage (read click bait).

I have no doubt the result of polarised is a warped view of the game through the window journalists provide. This is especially true of the majority of fans who can’t or don’t attend matches like myself.

I’m surprised you didn’t pick up on that in the article blogs.

Patrick Compton

Perhaps one problem with Wenger compared with Conte and Mourinho is that while they build their teams from the back, focusing on defence first, Wenger resorts to the other way round. For years, when I was a schoolboy, the Arsenal defended well, even if they were not very entertaining or scored many goals. For years now, Arsenal have been wonderful to watch, but so vulnerable at the back. We need a better balance.

Andy Mack

I also remember the years when a clean sheet was more important than scoring goals and although I do miss it, I don’t miss the mid-table position it often (NOT ALWAYS!) left us in…

King Kolo

Sorry Blogs but if you think that’s a random comment from a football manager just you know talking about football then you are, I think, being naive. Wenger cannot be at once highly intelligent and also just talking randomly. He is trying his best to hang on to his job. ‘Take some distance’ is another way of encouraging the fanbase to remember how much we like him rather than judge him on recent results/years. At the same time something he has said, not once but a couple of times is that we the fans are not a big part of his decision to stay or go. I personally think that’s insulting and takes a lot of gall to say in public. I do like Wenger a lot, he’s been a brilliant manager at times and a great personality in charge of the club. But appealing to how many games he has managed means little if you are winning less and less of them as time goes by.

He is of course not corrupt in a moral sense, far from it – the complete opposite.

But his view of this current situation is likely to be corrupted, because power tends to corrupt and absolutely power corrupts absolutely.

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