Man City 3-1 Arsenal – player ratings

183

Arsenal’s latest trip to the North-West was always going to be difficult.

Manchester City, unbeaten this season, have been playing with a confidence and swagger that has helped them open up a gap at the top of the table. In that respect, a 3-1 defeat doesn’t look so bad on paper.

On a tough afternoon, the most frustrating thing was our inability to keep hold of possession when facing the home side’s pressing tactics. Had we been a bit more composed, we might just have been able to make City pay for their profligacy.

Anyway, here’s how our players rated.

PC
33
5.5
HB
24
5
SK
31
4.5
LK
6
5
NM
18
5
FC
34
4.5
AR
8
5
GX
29
4
AI
17
4
11
4
AS
7
3
PC
33
6.5
HB
24
5
SK
31
4.5
LK
6
5
NM
18
5
FC
34
5
AR
8
6
GX
29
5
AI
17
5
11
5
AS
7
4
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33: Petr Cech

6.5
arseblog
5.5
Readers
45

A world-class keeper on top form probably stops De Bruyne's opener. He didn't. Made a couple of very decent stops in each half when City threatened to romp away with it.

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24: Hector Bellerin

5
arseblog
5
Readers
37

Looked like he might be a good attacking outlet in the first half, but it never really materialised.

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31: Sead Kolasinac

4.5
arseblog
4.5
Readers
57

Gave the ball away and stepped out of a challenge on Silva in the build-up to City's opener. Not his day.

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6: Laurent Koscielny

5
arseblog
5
Readers
5

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18: Nacho Monreal

5
arseblog
5
Readers
14

Harshly adjudged to have fouled Sterling for the penalty, didn't really do much else wrong.

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34: Francis Coquelin

5
arseblog
4.5
Readers
40

Nervous on the ball in an unfamiliar position but did make a couple of big challenges. Not as bad as it could have been given the circumstances. Hooked off for Lacazette.

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8: Aaron Ramsey

6
arseblog
5
Readers
13

Always eager to get on the ball and provided a decent assist for Lacazette. Seemed to make a point of not passing to Alexis who looked very fucked off with the Welshman as a result.

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29: Granit Xhaka

5
arseblog
4
Readers
53

Took City's third goal very personally, earning a booking for his complaints about the failure to award offside. Didn't really do much else.

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17: Alex Iwobi

5
arseblog
4
Readers
46

Picked to provide a bit more graft in the midfield, but really struggled on the ball when pressed by City.

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11: Mesut Özil

5
arseblog
4
Readers
28

No worse or better than the rest of the midfield. Another opportunity to change the 'can't do it in a big game' narrative passed him by.

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7: Alexis Alexis

4
arseblog
3
Readers
38

Ran around. Gave the ball away. Ran around. Gave the ball away. Ran around. Gave the ball away. City might think twice about a January bid.

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9: Alexandre Lacazette

7
arseblog
7.5
Readers
58

Sent on to score. Scored. Makes you wonder why he didn't get the nod in the first place.

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12: Olivier Giroud

-
arseblog
4
Readers
29

Not on long enough

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10: Jack Wilshere

-
arseblog
5.5
Readers
9

Not on long enough

Vote is now closed.

Bonus rating: 10/10 to Mikel Arteta for having hair that's still as black and lego-like as it was at Arsenal. Come home champ, we miss you. Bring City players.

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183 Comments on "Man City 3-1 Arsenal – player ratings"

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Goonas

No bonus for Ramsey pushing Edenson into the goal?

I found that very funny, especially as he celebrated afterwards.

not a great night otherwise. both Özil and Sanchez were extremely dissapointing 🙁

santori

Wenger protects certain players in the sentiment that they will revert their decision to leave when the writing has already been on the wall for quite a while.

In truth he should have at very least brought in Mahrez or Pastore for Alexis or Ozil.

So regardless if those players want to leave,m we are already working in half of the replacement and adding competition.

But we’ve seen it with the Ox.

He should have forced him to put pen to paper several seasons past or promoted Gnabry. Instead we lost both.

This sentimentality is one of the BIG problems with Wenger.

We lack competition.

Instead we prefer to try and sell Mustafi when we released an improved an maturing Gabriel and lay our hopes on an unproven Holding with still plenty of holes to his game.

Nor have midfield issues in balance been addressed for 3 seasons now without Santi. Instead we cling to the hope of Santi coming back in LANS.

Pastore in at very least may have been able to cover in a Arteta/Santi role next to Granit whiclt pushing or providing redundancy for Ozil (and Ramsey and Iwobi) higher up.

but Wenger isn’t making sufficient practical decisions at the moment.

Nor is he using his generally well bought ingredients to the best potential. The expensive ingredient which we need for this sort of game when opportunities in front of goal are going to be very limited, he elects to leave on the bench.

Its business as usual at the Arsenal.

Hermitian

Shocking reality. That would have been a goal in Fifa 2003 !

gooner

Ramsey had his luck. In the first half he toyed around with the ball lost it dangerously which would have resulted in us conceding if he were Xhaka and just as I was cursing him and Wenger for always playing him at all costs he assisted and I sat there confused what to make of him.

He was poor at his job but so was everyone and he still assisted.

But that sums up our team these days. We are now good enough to hope for a result against the big boys. Jus hope.

Also Coq had a very very good game for his role and nobody will give him credit.

dml

Agree — Coq did a lot to break up play. The above ratings are harsh on him. I felt Xhaka should have come off instead when Laca was brought on.

Billy Dyer

How about Özil (coming off)? Went missing… Again!!!
Or Iwobi that probably touched the ball 5/6 times for the entire game!
It’s not Xhaka’s fault that we have turned into a very static and lazy team. Xhaka’s long range passes are effective if there’s runners off the ball. Our players were literally hiding behind City players, whenever Xhaka, Coq & Co were looking for a pass forward

BromleyGooner

Sanchez didn’t have the best of games. But many accusing him of not trying is ridiculous. He was left isolated upfront with not much support. He led the press. He lost the ball a lot but he did as much as he could.

Ozil getting a higher rating than Sanchez is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. He did absolutely nothing good in 90 minutes. I honestly cannot remember one good moment Ozil had in the whole game and the only time I noticed he was on the pitch when he was trying to get himself sent off at the end.

Coquelin’s distribution I agree wasn’t great, but how many times did he win very important balls back. I thought he had a good game.

Blogs it really feels like you decide who to rate above who pre-match and then just move it around depending on whether we win or not.

Bill

Sanchez was not very good. He took the I don’t pass and try to run around everyone to new heights today I though.

BromleyGooner

I agree his end product was poor but can you really say he wasn’t trying or he was already mentally not at Arsenal? And can you really even compare him to Ozil (let alone rate him lower than him)? What did Ozil do of note in the whole game today?

Jimbo Jones

Neither did anything of note… Just had a look on whoscored to get an unemotional view and Alexis and Ozil both came out pretty badly and not within our top six players today. Alexis is so wasteful (lost possession 21 times, he lost the ball from an unforced bad touches 4 times, dispossessed 7 times and poor passing stats too.)

Also Coquelin who for whatever bat shit crazy reason started in the middle of the back three and was our main conduit for bringing the ball out from the back has worse passing accuracy than anyone else on the pitch including the two keepers. (65%.) We all know its not his strength yet wenger tries it out for the first time against City. Only Arsenal.

Up the Arsenal

Ramsey got dispossessed too many times and his lack of defensive awareness resulted in the first goal.

Jimbo Jones

Does anyone know what’s the deal with Rambo and Sanchez. They clearly don’t like eachother but its got to the point that it looks like they avoid passing to eachother if they can. Sanchez looks like he doesn’t like many of his team mates to be honest but there is a particular issue between him and Ramsey. is it just a sporting issue? Is it something else? A Wayne Bridge/John Terry situation where the welshman has been taking Alexis’ dogs for a walk on the sly? Sneaking them smackos perhaps?

Intrigues if anyone knows what its about?

BoomXhakaLaca!

could it be because Rambo is Arsenal through and through and can’t stand a money grabbing selfish double agent playing more for the opponent than for the team of whose badge he is wearing? Can’t blame him.

BromleyGooner

Ramsey isn’t half the player Alexis is

Jimbo Jones

No doubt about that when he’s on form and committed. Ramsey is not as bad, or as good for that matter, as some make out but not good for the team when they’re not working together. Wenger needs to address it surely.

Jimbo Jones

No doubt about that when he’s on form and committed. Ramsey is not as bad, or as good for that matter, as some make out but not good for the team when they’re not working together. Wenger needs to address it surely.

Billy Dyer

Right there!!!
That tells the story of how unbiased you are!

Reality check

Rambo has flirted with Barca a few times before.. Don’t think he’ll look back once if he could catch the same train as Song..

Jay Salhi

We’ll soon see if Mr. I’d like to play in Spain is Arsenal through and through or not.

henry

of course there is an issue. Sanchez is a world class player and Ramsey is a donkey. what you think there is an issue Sanchez waiting for a through ball from Ramsey?

Mpls

That ‘donkey’ outclassed Sanchez by a country mile today. 1 for Sanchez. Fuck that guy. Totally done with him unless he grows the fuck up and realizes what it means to be part of a team. Primadonna did nothing but give the damn ball away today.

Up the Arsenal

Ramsey has cost us many chances yesterday with his slow decision making on the counter and his lack of technical ability. There was a chance when Alexis was onside, alone, unmarked and close to Ramsey, but the latter decided to pass the ball to another player wasting a perfect opportunity to draw City.

Dr Whale

I also noticed last season that Sanchez and Ozil hated passing to Walcott in box 18 whenever he has a chance of scoring. This to me reduced Ozil’s assist.

McTaggart

This because they both knew that Walcott will stuff it up, he is a really useless player whom Arsene has given too many chances to.

Billy Dyer

Ramsey was in fantastic position to score inside the box, whilst Sanchez had the ball and chose to take a shot himself from 35 yards.
Absolute total coq-up from Wenger for playing Sanchez instead of Lacazette.
Lessons aren’t learned from Ox situation. How much more deluded can Wenger get??????

AGunner

Watch the game again, Özil actually had a decent game. Saw him pressing in the final third a fair few times, running the keeper down and even won the ball back in midfield a couple times. Can’t use him as a scapegoat today.

On the other hand, you have Sanchez, Coq and a couple others repeatedly giving the ball away and not keeping possession of the ball at all. City are extremely good this season, but giving them the ball at every opportunity just makes it easier.

Wenger needs to have a word with Alexis about hogging the ball, otherwise drop him for a couple games cus he’s starting to hinder the team rather than help it.

Nick

Tell me ONE good incisive pass made by Ozil ? He and Ramsey both stood watching as the ginger manc scored their opener ! He missplaced more than a few passes too ! As a team we were poor today not one player had a good game let alone a stand out one and too many looked at times as if they were auditioning for a keystone cops remake!

Lettra

Ha ha I loved it as well parts of me was madly hoping the goal would stand when it happened.. but I guess the pendulum only swings one way for ridiculous referee decisions.

BODMAS

The Arsenal missed Danny.. against Chelky,it was all about Danny,Iwobi and Laca I think…

Tommy Gunner

Xhaka and Koscielny standing around like twats in our box with their hands in the air was infuriating and unforgivable.

Gooneron

Granted it was. But it was due to the offside. They should however have known better and played to the whistle.

santori

Granit, Koscielny AND Bellerin all culpable.

School boy error.

Play to whistle.

The problem is Bould and Arsene do not drum it into these players.

They are not hard enough on them (nor in truth do we have sufficient back up for these players)

Some say Jack can come in for Granit but I don’t think it covers for what the Swiss gives us even if the Swiss has some glaring faults. Nor is Jack sustainable enough to see through entire games.

So we are deficient because we have not allowed ourselves sufficient cover to capability particularly in midfield where we feel obliged now to lump 3 in to cover the job of 2.

To some extent at least we can say we are missing Mustafi to pair the aging Koscielny but what was the sense of trying to sell the German let alone letting Gabriel go?

There’s a lack of coherence in the decision making in terms of squad make up but also a failure to confront the true issues plaguing the defensive side of our game.

Our collective mental concentration is piss poor but the players are being allowed to get away with it. Partially its because we lack sufficient options but also the gumption to drop non performing players for those that make more tactical sense on the day (Ozil for Lacazette today)

Will we learn any lessons? Probably not. We’ve been down this road way too often over the last 5 or 6 seasons now (arguably from RVP time when Wenger took out the Ox much to the Dutchman’s constenation)

Up the Arsenal

What does the Swiss give us that Jack doesn’t? Honest question btw.

Tad

Less time on the treatment table

Tad

Bould was part of one of the most famous ‘arm in the air’ back fours we ever had ! He Adams et al would step forward and raise the arm, exactly as Xhaka did. On the wrong foot then so can’t quickly turn and relying on the Lino to get it right, and as usual in matches against City, the ref and Lino were conveniently looking the other way. Happens far too often.

Nelson

My old coach always said play to the whistle but ignore you know you have no chance act like it’s a blatant offside sometimes it will turn a 50/50 in our favour

Dan Davies

Said this before and I’ll say it again…

Kos is not an elite CB. Very good but no more.

You’ll never when the title with him as your skipper and Number 1 CB.

Reality check

Yep.. if Kos had any leadership qualities or a bit of character about him, he would’ve been the best defender of his generation. But sadly he typifies Wenger’s post invincible teams.. soft and with questionable professional pride.. he’s a good competitor but not a warrior, competitors win matches but warriors win championships..

caligunner

ARe you being serious? lol

Jimbo Jones

He’s technically a great centre back but lacks that special something that would make him a true legend. Would he get in the George Graham defence? I cant see it at all. Adams, Bould, Keown all better than him in my eyes and have the trophies to prove it. He will never hold the legendary status of some of our great centre-halves many who’ve captained the side and cannot be spoken about in the same breath as Adams (doubles, leagues, so many cups) McLintock (’71 double), O’Leary (2 titles, 2 cups), Sol Campbell (double, invincible.)

Jimbo Jones

Not saying I don’t like him but its a sign of the times that captain who we have capitulated under so often is seen as an elite centrehalf. I think you perhaps haven’t been supported The Arsenal long enough to know what teh benchmark is.

There’s an old chinese proverb a bloke in work told me about “the frog who lives in the well cannot imagine how wonderful the ocean is.”

jack jack jack

Difficult to compare him to one of the best backlines to play in English football. He’s been brilliant for us. And I don’t think you can criticise Arsene on this one – think about the level Koscielny was at when he first arrived compared to now. Lightyears apart.

Crash Fistfight

Wouldn’t a frog die in the ocean?

Jimbo Jones

haha

eddy

The proverb, really “jing di zhi wa”, is more describing the view of the sky that a frog has – limited to what he can see that passes by the well, a little circle of light.

Due to that limited viewpoint, he is unaware of anything else that happens outside – this is his world.

So, accurate use of the proverb, even if the bloke in work probably explained it a little wrong!

Kostas Greek Gooner

You are more offside than Silva

Reality check

Two of the most important qualities of an Elite defender is communication and bottle, sadly Kos lacks both.. we are are talking about a guy who doesn’t even stands up for himself let alone his team.
If Kos was an elite defender he’d been playing for one of the elites.. we are not elite.
Funny thing is.. none of the big clubs have ever come in for him, he couldn’t even hold down a regular place in a shi*y french defence.. even Sakho was preffered over him.. he’s ours and that’s why we believe he’s special but ain’t.. he’s decent, that’s about it..

Jimbo Jones

We’ve got to realise his communication is lacking so much so that he is not even made our official club captain by Wenger. Not being derogatory but its just simple facts.

Reality check

Jimbo Jones
Exactly, you’ll never see him organising the defensive lines or rallying the troops when needed. He’s just too nice on this pitch to be an elite defender, just doesn’t have that nasty competitive ego that champs have..

ritabhash

His fitness is the problem currently imo. He has reached that stage where it becomes near impossible for him to complete 90 min continuously for a stretch of games without the fear of injury.
Your assumption is a bit too extreme but there is no doubt Kos is on the decline and he is no longer as good as he was 1-2 seasons ago.
As a skipper, i don’t have a problem with him. He isn’t vocal by any means but he has good organisation and I think the shouting part is done pretty well by Nacho and Xhaka to a lesser extent.

Mesut O\'Neill

Ozil doesn’t need to worry about not receiving any offers come January as he has options career wise.

He would make a fantastic magician, he can make himself disappear for 90 minutes.

Ozil is a cancer that needs to leave the club. The snarling disdain he showed towards one of our defenders after he fucked up & someone had the cheek to tell him.

He is an asshole that has way too much leeway from fans who seem to think he is the messiah. Arshavin 2.0

Tad

Totally, totally agree. He has been instrumental in the demolition of Ludogorets and Everton. What a star !! Big games show he has nothing to offer mentally. Get rid if we can find anybody stupid enough to make an offer. Two years too late. There is an argument that buying a player if his type was the start of a terminal decline for the Club. I have a simple edict these days, if we are now able to buy somebody off a top club, what is wrong with them ?

Billy Dyer

And Sanchez

Petit\'s Handbag

“Seemed to make a point of not passing to Alexis who looked very fucked off with the Welshman as a result.” Yet this player, who refuses to pass to a better placed team mate gets a higher rating than most. Ramsey was very poor today, lost it time and time again himself. Maybe some teammates should think before passing to him.

IceBerg10

Utterly laughable….. Ramsey the highest mark for outfield starters?!? Lemme be clear this is not a witchhunt. Ramsey is perfect for certain games… Not against high pressing teams who exploit the space you’ve just vacated. Not against midfielders who’ll exploit your dilly dallying on the ball. An assist shouldn’t masks his obvious mistakes. Watch him against the Spurs. Yes he wasn’t the only one. Sanchez was atrocious, and Ozil was very annoying as well. But this blind spot for Ramsey is just ridiculous!

leroy

i thought ramsey was average at best today, but other than lacazette (7), who would you rate higher?

IceBerg10

It’s not the point. He was just as bad as the rest. The point is, you cannot play TWO midfielders who cannot give you and outlet because neither can relieve pressure by carrying the ball. Ramsey leaves Xhaka overexposed

Loose_Cannon

To be fair, Xhaka leaves Xhaka overexposed too. He’s not exactly a model of positional discipline himself, is he? Truth is we don’t have two DMs to play that formation effectively if we’re put under pressure in the middle. As for Ramsey, maybe his rating is too high but I can’t think of an outfield starter that had a better game either

IceBerg10

This completely misses the point I’m making. Of course you re right about Xhaka, no doubt about it. But it’s not about who played better than Ramsey, it’s about the strengths and weaknesses of his game against high energy, high pressing teams. He doesn’t have the close control nor the quick precise passing to get him out of trouble and his insistence on bombing forward leaves us over exposed in the middle of the park. against deeper lying teams and lower table teams, this positional freedom he enjoys is brilliant. He is just not technically good enough against the very best. Pure and simple

Crash Fistfight

Your point was that Ramsey shouldn’t have received a higher rating than any of the other outfield players. The responses were that the posters thought he was better than any of the other outfield players.

Not sure how that has got anything to do with your comments about what types of teams Ramsey is good or bad against. Just seems like you have a pre-conceived idea that Ramsey should be bad against Man City, so therefore his personal rating should be lower, which makes no sense. That is rating the manager’s decision.

IceBerg10

Read the post again, it may help you grasp my point. I said he was just as bad as the others and didn’t deserve to be the highest rated outfield player! I then went on to elucidate why so, for your benefit, i’ll elaborate again so it may seep in to your entrenched biases.
It’s not whether people play better or worse than Ramsey. For example, Monreal is usually very steady and dependable, but he may have the odd bad game. Ramsey does the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN, so the propensity for him to play a good game is more predetermined by who we face as opposed to Monreal because of his glaring limitations. Against deeper lying teams, or teams that give us more time on the ball, Ramseys strengths ( late arrival in the box, support running, the odd assist) are more suited. against higher pressing teams, he leaves us over-exposed, not helped by the fact that both he and Xhaka is terrible on the ball, which compounds the futility of the midfield as no one can relieve the pressure more technically proficient and high energy teams put us under ( as opposed to, say Wilshere or Cazorla). This then puts more pressure on the defense. I hope that makes it clearer for you

Tad

YES !! At last somebody who understands !! Xhaka is carrying the can for Ramsey’s indiscipline week after week. He is forced into long hopeful passes because he has nobody available to give the ball to other than backwards. He should be called Granit Colonel Custer Xhaka. He is not playing well now because his confidence is shot to pieces. Wenger may have ruined a really good player by his insistence on Ramsey in that position, when he should be viewed as the Ozil alternative, if viewed at all, that is.

Stringer Bell

It is subjective but I agree it’s embarrassing to give Ramsey highest mark for starting players. His lack of technical ability and decision making is terrible. A few breaks we had where he just doesn’t do what game demands.

jack jack jack

He didn’t have a great game but he’s criminally underrated by Arsenal fans. If you take him out of that team we get absolutely demolished.

Mootilated

Ramsey can fuck right off for all I care and can take half the team with him.

Perry

The spu*s ?? Down vote for that alone

Hermitian

Some people just lack basic personal hygiene….

henry

Ramsey can do no wrong!! it wss his usual nothing performance though. still he will be first name on the sheet next week. please no comments “he won us 2 FA cups”

VfB Talheim

Probably u a Xhaka fan …. Ramsey > Jack > Coq >Elneny> Willock >>>>>..and to miles behind is Xhaka !!!! Wenger take your Xhaka Sanchez and Özil and look elsewhere for a new opportunity …

Glen Helders Left Foot
Glen Helders Left Foot

Xhaka and Ramsey really are a horrendous combination I midfield ,Jack really should start now….think city will think twice about Sanchez now and not many top teams will be after ozil, we really need change so badly it’s fucking depressing

Matt P

Ozil once again does not step up against the big boys. He has played well in about 25% of games in the last 18 months. I am just waiting now for the usual bagging now from the Ozil lovers…
Having said that, collectively we aren’t good enough.

phimagen

Xhaka is just the type of player AFC seems to be able to get. No real big player or player with real potential wants to join us anymore. Why should they??

eternalflamini

Apart from lacazette

phimagen

Yes, I agree. I like Lacazette. In a better team he could be a world class player

Billy Dyer

And Wenger sits him on the bench v Liverpool & City

Billy Dyer

City won’t think twice about buying Sanchez.
Pep ain’t Wenger! He wasn’t scared to sit on the bench
Aguero.
Wenger insanely, starts against Man City, the very player we are about to sell to them in 2 months time…
It’s driving my nuts, trying to find a sensible reason to why Wenger keeps repeating the same mistakes.
I hope he drops Sanchez on the bench v Sp@rs

Merteslacker

cant help but notice that Ramsey’s got the biggest rating variance with user..just sayin

is it possible that Cech goes thru his entire Arsenal career without saving a penalty? does anyone have any idea what’s his pk record with Chelski?

Skotuah

Blogs can’t see Ramsey’s bad game when he’s all over his nutz. Get off his balls blogs!!!

Timsh

It’s not blogs, it’s the News Hound who did the ratings, so give him a break and don’t get upset about it.

santori

Who had a good game though?

Alexis started way too many counter attacks for City with lose passes from left.

Ozil was absent.

Iwobi did not look comfortable position-wise.

Granit was ball watching instead should have played to whistle.

Kolasinac let Sterling in on a number of ocassions including for their penalty.

Koscielny also guilty of ball watching instead of playing to whistle.

Monreal struggled and conceded the penalty when he should have got close but entrusted his keeper.

Cech could have done better for the De Bruyne effort.

In that context Coquelin and Ramsey did OK with their endeavor at very least.

These ratings are always heavily biased with certain players getting higher marks for no reason anyway, others constantly receiving lower ones despite.

I thought Ramsey was OK but not in the right position.

He should have been top of apex in a midfield diamond 4 ghosting in between either of Alexis or Lacazette ahead of him on left and right.

The gaffer has a huge role to play as well in the players looking lost out there.

jack jack jack

Ramsey isn’t technical or creative enough to play in the no 10 role. He’s a classic box-to-box midfielder – what he needs is the protection to set him free, in the same way that Pogba is provided that by Matic.

Alexis didn’t have a great game but I personally thought he worked his hole off and did as well as he could considering the circumstances – especially in the first half when he was almost completely isolated up front.

Billy Dyer

Are you Michael McIntyre in disguise?
Made laugh, your second paragraph about Alexis

Coquelin in the new Beckenbauer
Coquelin in the new Beckenbauer

I actually think koscielny deserved a higher rating, the amount of times he was left 2 on 1 and he was positioned perfectly to cut out or force a bad pass (sterling first half). Scoreline would have been a lot worse without him.

Stringer Bell

Watching Fàbregas against united, outstanding. To think we didn’t bring him back and field Ramsey and xhaka, the worse midfield in top half of premiership without a shadow of doubt.

Anthony

Sadly, even with Cesc, we would have lost today.

Agree though, we should have brought him home.

Deano

He didn’t want to come back! Annoyingly matches like today show why. He does love Arsene but he just doesn’t believe in him anymore.

ALexis PACINO

Is that the daily mail columnist?

Goonerink

He did but arsene said we have santi jack and Ramsey so no room for him….

Anthony

This was my understanding of the situation also.

Vonnie

Cesc also wanted the sort of money that only the Mancs or Chavs can afford to pay. It’s all spin, he behaved like a cunt to go to Barca and when they didn’t want him anymore he came up with this sob story of how we wouldn’t give him a new contract. He knew where the money was all the time.

littlemozart

He has openly said he wanted to come back. We didn’t offer him a contract so he went to Chelski

Gooneron

We used to play like City do now. How times have changed.

Jimbo Jones

We sound like a bunch of mid table fans these days complaining about big club bias and if only the linesman had flagged we could have nicked a point.

Remember when we were a big club, behaved like a big club, did business like a big club and got results like a big club. The manager and Board talk about our values but i never hear them explicitly state what they are. Just that we have them. Well perhaps they should start with ‘competing’ and ‘winning’ but I suspect they get confused and just think value is what they can extract from the fans.

Billy Dyer

LOL to “used to”

NewSeason

That hug he gave Guardiola. 😣😣

We should have gotten a point on the way we played. The referee was atrocious, not just on the penalty and offside, but also on the sheer volume of yellows he gave to the Arsenal side. I believe we had 5-6 vs 1 to City.

Even so, there weren’t too many positives from the match which is a worry for the Spurs match. Fun interlull to look forward to…?

As an aside, De Bruyne is bloody amazing. Some of his close control was world class and if we are going to sell Sanchez, he’s the kind of player we should be looking for.

PaulS

You think we were good enough to deserve a point away against by far the best team in the league but don’t think that’s a positive?

leroy

de bruyne had some impressive cazorla-esque control today. he’s certainly at the top of his game this season.

Fireman Sam

De Bruyne is one of the best players in the world and I’d love to have him at Arsenal but there’s no way they’d swap him in a Sanchez deal

Jimbo Jones

That’s a statement of the bloody obvious 😉

NaiBoi Gunner.

Man when we want to we can be bad. Arsenal as a a club is in need of new ideas. From top to bottom.

NaiBoi Gunner.

And for some reason, not as pissed of about this loss as I was in previous seasons..infact, been getting less and less pissed off about these kinds of losses for a while now. Wow, is this how fans of smaller clubs feel?

Matt P

Yeah I am not shitty about this result. Totally expected, there is a huge gulf in class in the squads.

santori

For years now, Wenger has needed a Carlos Quieroz type to complement his acumen in market.

This was since Pat Rice days.

Bould can’t even seem to tackle the defensive side concentration.

Shank

Thought u cudda commented on the brilliant Jack cameo…… Different class.

However, the reality is, that s

Fireman Sam

Jack was great when he came on. As he has been in general recently. On this sesson’s form I’d prefer to have Jack rather than Özil any day.

santori

Don’t get so easily fooled.

yes Jack looked decent but his issue is sustainability.

In truth we have poor balance in midfield that has not been addressed since Santi has gone injured.

Jiminy Jim

I’m more aggrieved I didn’t put money on the game as I predicted 3-1 and the order of the goals. We’re a good side but not at City’s level and I felt the most we could do would be to scrape a draw. We don’t have the athletics qualities in midfield to press and scrap. I won’t miss Sanchez when he goes. He’d done brilliant things for us but he’ll always take 7 touches when 1 will do. He’s what at school we called a hogger. The guy no one wants to pass to because he hogs the ball every single time he gets it. He slows down our attack and fails to make crucial quick passes. In that respect he’s guileless.

Titans Arse

I thought Ramsey was one of the few who really wanted to make something happen. Unfortunately I’m really looking forward to Ozil and Sanchez going now. I feel like both sides just need to move on. There is a niggling feeling that things are passed to Sanchez at the detriment to the rest of the team and gameplay. I feel like he is holding us back a bit now. Please don’t get me wrong I still love him and think that he is a fantastic player. Just feel like maybe we are holding each other back. It’s a shame. Blogs summed it up in a post Just after the Watford game that there is too much wrong with this team but I am starting to believe that the reliance on Sanchez is one of the problems. Some of you may say that if it wasn’t for him we’d be in even more shit. I’m just not convinced. I was actually hoping that Giroud and Wiltshire were going to come on for Ozil and Sanchez today.

Shank

However the reality is that some insignificant cunt like paddy McNair will fuck him over soon.
That, my friends, is the reality of this Bollox of a league.

Diarra

Our midfield is sh*t and it was a huge mistake to start Alexis up top. Their defence is their weakness and we started with 0 strikers on the pitch..

Also, how many more bad away matches does Xhaka have to play to get dropped? We lack energy, technicality and pace in midfield. It was kind of frustrating to see how well Wilshere while on the ball dealt with their pressing when he came on. We haven’t seen that since Cazorla got injured, and we have been poor since as everyone just presses our CB/Xhaka until they miss a pass.

The referee was shocking but we were poor too.

Wozfe

Bonus rating:
Ederson’s neck tattoo: Sterling’s sideburns/10

Fireman Sam

Sterling is an overrated numpty. If he’d been a better footballer we would have shipped another couple of goals today.

Godfrey Twatsloch

Yes but Wozfe’s comments were on his sideburns. And they aren’t all that either.

Trez

Xhaka lowkey wasn’t that bad. Ramsey did well but messed up alot of moves. Ozil started off well but faded after the goal. We should’ve gone with a real 4-3-3 with Coquelin anchoring. Iwobi wasn’t bad as well. Alexis was the worst out of the front 4.
I’m not too surprised/disappointed with this result. We all saw it coming. Spurs will come in and beat us too.
Wilshere needs to start the next game. PLAY A 4-3-3.

BenGman

Arteta at City makes me sad. He is good enough for Pep so he must be good enough for us. We need better coaches

Vonnie

Mikel Arteta is the only player that’s upset me when he went to city. I can understand why he went, and it makes me sad. If Sanchez goes to city then Mikel Arteta will still be the only one who upsets me that he went there.

Absolut

Hope he comes back soon. Also never ‘carried on’ when citeh scored. Absolute class.

kas

Doubt he would come back while Wenger’s in charge, why would you?

Adams Jnr

I kind of like it – hope he learns as much as possible from Guadiola and then comes back to Arsenal as our manager

santori

I thought Coquelin did OK.

Strange selection and set up by Wenger.

Far better IMO to keep Granit in the middle and have Le Coq and Iwobi on either side tracking runners.

Alexis put in his usual shift but seem a ridiculous task to put him up top on his own. Gave the ball back to City with poor cut backs or corner from the left side at least 4 times. Maybe he’s already seeing sky blue.

Ozil was a waste of space but remains protected for inexplicable reason.

Iwobi tried but was given IMO poor directive and the whole midfield looked a bit lost for positioning. Would have swapped jack for Iwobi a little earlier.

Why Lacazette did not start of course befuddles.

Monreal had some lose moments but in general the entire team did not show enough awareness.

Kolasinac completely guilty for Sterling slipping by for his dive.

Granit and Koscielny culpable for not playing to the whistle (as Bellerin)

Whole team is not switched on defensively, concentration levels remain an issue and will continue to do so if gaffer doesn’t take them to task and instead deflects it toward the ref.

BUT set up did not help the players.

We negated our best weapon on the left in the Kolasinac/Alexis combo by going four (or five) at the back. Alexis on his own up top meant little penetration from wide areas.

We would have done better with Laca and Alexis attacking in tandem to put pressure on the suspect Stones and otamendi.

Drop Ozil, have Ramsey at the apex of a diamond four midfield so he can ghost in in between the two strikers.

As mentioned the more mobile Iwobi and Coquelin on either side to watch their runners, leave Granit (granted he isn’t the best tackler) to sit with the Cbacks.

Just poor decisions on the day by Wenger but endemic issues defensively that remain unaddressed did not help.

We lump Giroud on as a final desperate measure but the one player who can find him from deep (Granit) is taken off.

Nor did we endeavor to take it wide and put it to the Frenchman’s head.

There is a incoherence of tactical decision making that has not helped this team. Good players given poor instruction left to wallow in a miasma of seeping standards.

Competitive with City?

I think its CL versus Europa but hey, some people would prefer us to win a second rate pot. Go figure.

McTaggart

I agree with just about everything you said, I watch on a poor stream but we were lucky that the score was not worse. Sanchez has given up, there is no other way to read his game, Ozil not much better, more frustrated than anything else. The whole team did not seem to know the game plan if there was one. Cech in goal is not the same guy 5 years ago, still a great goalie but we have to start to think of the future. Bellerin is not the same since his injury but do we have someone better, I only wish he could cross the ball and run around the defender. he has the speed for that. Monreal is still a very good player in my book, can play anywhere across the backline, it is when we get to the centre-backs we get into trouble. Big Per is going to retire and we thank him for his service, Holding is learning his trade, Kos is showing his years injury-wise, but still, a first pick in the team sheet Mustafi is only good as a backup, ditto Debuchy. Xhaka I would persevere with as his commitment is not under question. Wilshire likely to come back into the side now as he showed a glimpse of what he can really do and we need someone to replace our little Santi.who I don’t think will be back anytime soon. Ramsey is would like to see gone, sorry but we have been waiting a long time for him to come good again and if he thinks he can pass to or not pass to certain other players then he can go. Coq is a limited player who was called back from the door marked “Do one” when he was trying to get into the Charlton 1st team!! We really can do better than that if we are serious about challenging for the Premiership. Walcott, well what can we say, better question, what does Wenger see in him that we don’t? how many years are to go by before Wenger gives up. I watched a game from the Europa cup, forget which one, where Walcott missed goal after goal! hopeless, a second division player at best. And why would you sit a proven goal-scorer on the bench, what has Lacazette done to deserve that? Just crazy really. I like Ozil, unbelievably skilled player, but loses heart when things are not going well, stops trying I think. Big Ollie I would have the squad every time, just get wingers who can play to his strengths Welbeck does try, it is a pity that his legs get tangled when he is presented with a goal.
The one major thing that I could see was the lack of a game plan to combat City, what is the use of Bould if he cannot help Wenger? That’s it, rant over….

Atom

This was better than a lot of our other big games the past few years even if the result was the same. We’re a cup team at this point – not good enough on the whole but can win one off games.

Conchetumadre

Arsenal fan here until the end…..
However, I’m NOT surprised or shocked by any means we lost to City.

Edzo

We really miss a ball control midfielder. I dream of a healthy santi and wilshere in the center of the park. I know. That will never happen.

Same old story. We just don’t have enough great players. And our best, Sanchez, just wants to leave.

We’ve staeted ozil, Sanchez and lacca in only two matches???

We are a 5th or 6th place team that belongs in the Europa league. For the past 10 years we’ve exited in the final 16 in champs league and finished top 4. We’re not even good enough to do that. Those days are over unless the club invests in top talent

santori

We have missed Santi for 3 seasons now.

Wenger has neglected the issue only partially replacing his capability with Granit’s long range distribution but the ball control skills have been missing to help keep the ball for us.

I think it isn’t an issue of Granit or Jack but more one of Jack and Granit as a workable partnership but that entials Jack can sustain for long duration which remains a big IF.

Which is why another player coming in like Pastore (who would have also been able to push Ozil for that matter Ramsey) could have been a master stroke given the Argentine is unwanted at PSG.

Wenger’s issue has never been about not buying well in market. Whether he buys enough to cover his tactical deficiencies (or neglect) was always the bigger issue.

Goonerste

You could argue arsenal has a better squad than city. It’s just this who stupid mentality and tactic rubbish going on

Vedant

10/10 : when Xhaka hit Ramsey with the ball coz he was being selfish and indisciplined

aced

Have watched City a lot this season, and regretfully for us they were beatable today. Sterling did his best to keep us in the match in the first half. But, frankly, the starting lineup today was beyond curious.
And what exactly does Xhaka do to continue to claim a starting spot?

Cechmate

I didn’t think Ramsey was too bad, but I think Wenger should have started with Jack and Laca in place of Xhaka and Iwobi but Jack had just played in Europa. Once Jack came on, he was able to wriggle free from under pressure with his skill. Coq was supposed to provide the defensive cover for ramsey bombing forward but it didn’t work. We were unlucky to concede twice but we also have to understand that we get unlucky too many times bcoz we find ourselves in such situations too many times – one on ones and deep within the box tackles.

One advice to Bellerin, he should never walk alone on the road, as he just can’t cross – even for his life! He is Ozil’s equivalent in attack, he runs but hardly gets in crosses or hardly scores, so he’s hardly an attacking threat. Doesn’t provide an attacking outlet. He doesn’t have to run till the post and then cross, he needs to cross diagonally as well, which he just doesn’t – he needs to be groomed and I’m not sure who within Arsenal is responsible for that. He is frustrating to watch by the day, isn’t brilliant in attack or defense at present.

phimagen

A top level player is consistently good, reliable. Ramsey far from it, making him an average player with stints of brilliance, but not one you can count on.
We could have got a point if it wasn’t for the idiot refs. I might stop watching football until they start using video technology properly. It’s beyond ridiculous at this point. Like insisting on using a typewriter when the rest of the world uses email

yen

Seems like it’s no Premier League football for you then.

phimagen

😀
Imagine all the things I’ll be able to do in my life. Stress free. Anger free.

Jean Ralphio

Thought Cech had a decent game. Can’t expect them to save all. We were poor going forward. We are lacking balance. This team is screaming out for a Veratti.

catbiscuits

yeah it’s a bit weird to mock Cech for failing to save a well-struck penalty that went in off the post

Leon

For god sake when is someone at Arsenal going to grow a pair of bollocks and bring an end to this shambles?
I keep asking what is Wenger is judged upon because its not team performances and winning games.
Every single big game that we need to get a result or performance from you can be guaranteed that he and his spineless bunch of foreign mercenary garbage will fuck up.
Every single game.
And yet…
The bastard is still in a job when so many are losing theirs.
Arsenal are in a real bad shape when you get people joking that Ramsey should get credit for pushing the opposition player over.
Arsenal are second and third rate – there is nothing about this club that makes me think things will ever change.
And there will be that dribbling, senile coffin dodger still at the club making the same mistakes over and over and over again.
Arsenal are simply shite…

santori

We are not that shit.

We are around where Liverpool, Chelski, Spurs and maybe United are (barely)

We are just not where City are at the moment.

Hehsh

Not true. Spurs have been consistently better than is for 3 seasons. Chelsea won the league last year. Don’t see how you can say that

Goonerste

We’re pretty much level with the rest of them par city.

Eduardo

Think xhaka has to do more. Was decent at the end of last season but these days he doesnt really provide much to the team. Also thought we looked better with 4 at the back.

santori

City are off and running. Our invincibles record may truly be at risk.

Shockingly, despite the loss, we are still within 4 points of United level with Liverpool.

So we are in the mix for a top 4 finish but we do not exhibit the mental consistency to finish as title winners yet again.

I think our change of system today may not have helped some of the players.

The relationship between Kolasinac and Alexis was effectively negated.

Iwobi looked lost as to what he is suppose to do.

Ramsey’s most effective role destroying through the middle was also not promoted.

Our Fullbacks had to pinch in to cover for their runners which meant they had a field day in the wide areas.

It was good to have Coquelin as spare deep in midfield ahead of the back 2 (particularly when Alexis conspired to turn the ball over to their counter with one of his many poor ‘telegraphed’ passes) but may have been better to risk a back 3
with Granit in front even with the Swiss’s deficiencies.

Monreal would have had to scramble less ditto Koscielny. But the problem is Per would have been vulnerable to Arguero. We missed Mustafi today.

Why we sold Gabriel and tried to sell Mustafi is completely beyond me when we blatantly had midfield balance issues to sort out.

All this built on the sentimentality that Santi will return and that Jack can sustain for a prolong period at 90 minutes in PL.

Wenger needs to be more realistic.

Paul Smith

I thought Iwobi did alright. He did his defensive work and wasn’t as bad in the ball as most were today. Preparation for the game was again poor. What was the plan first half? Sit deep? Press? We did a bit of both and just made it easy for them. Either press or sit deep but you have to commit to one of them. Poor…and for the love of my sanity please start Lacazette!! He’s a natural finisher…play him!!

Matt

No mention of our genius manager leaving our best striker on the bench in a big match AGAIN? Yeah, let’s keep supporting this helpless manager and wish for another contract extension, come on…

Olivje Ziru

I think those ratings are a little harsh.

1) Cech was amazing today. He kept us in the game with two close finish saves. He should get credit more often.
2)Our back 5 did okay. Bellerin looked lively today, Coq made some good tackles and interceptions (I think we shouldn’t sub him – would steal some balls when City were on counter attack).
3)Xhaka made some good long passes and played better than previous games imo. Also he was the one who always pressed high the opposition.
4)Ramsey impressed me with his disciplined today and Ozil was great defensively for his standards but attacking wise there weren’t many team mates who made runs. (After 60 minutes he was also clearly tired).
5)Iwobi was also solid defensively.
6)But there is Sanchez. He lost twice as much balls in the first half alone as Walcott has touches through the whole match.

Therefore our problems weren’t tactically or defensively but our passing in the last third. We had couple of chances when should have done better – Sanchez bad pass to Ozil, another Sanchez bad pass to Ozil through the middle when he should pass right where we had TWO open players.

Apart for 20 minutes in the first half we were not exactly outperformed. It was not a penalty and it was a stonewall offside. We were in the game but referees took that away. I don’t say we would have won but we would at least had a chance to. We were better in the first half of the 2nd half.

The only thing I will criticize players is the last 10 minutes because they already gave up. But for some players people decided before the game that they played shit (Coq, Xhaka).

Jiminy Jim

I’m more aggrieved I didn’t put money on the game as I predicted 3-1 and the order of the goals. We’re a good side but not at City’s level and I felt the most we could do would be to scrape a draw. We don’t have the athletics qualities in midfield to press and scrap. I won’t miss Sanchez when he goes. He’d done brilliant things for us but he’ll always take 7 touches when 1 will do. He’s what at school we called a hogger. The guy no one wants to pass to because he hogs the ball every single time he gets it. He slows down our attack and fails to make crucial quick passes. In that respect he’s guileless.

emob

What’s even the point talking about players when we have been doing the same thing for 10 years now. He’s helpless, devoid of ideas and refuses to any help or change. The players come and go, we’re still the same. Nothing about today was surprising. And it’s only going to get worse before it gets better.

Vonnie

Lacazette going the same way as Lucas Perez, the manager doesn’t play him. Arsene does it with Oli, even when the game is suited to him he only brings him on for ten or fifteen minutes. He used to do it with Rosicky, and Bergkamp before that. Arsene takes against players. What sort of team selection was this again? Our players have to battle the opposition, the referees and their own manager, it’s lunacy.

Chris Siple

Sometimes the other guys are just better than our guys. Today was an example. We played some good football out there and made a real game out of it. What bugs me is that we’ll probably play Bournemouth or Newcastle and play like crap and drop points. I’d rather we looked terrible against the likes of City and played like this against the teams below us.

I thought Kos had a very good game. Sead can’t be 100% or he’d have been more mobile. Ramsey was told to get up high; unfortunately, he’s not a top finisher, because he gets the ball in some dangerous positions. Iwobi is progressing; it’s no disgrace to have been robbed a few times by a really intense press. Props to Coquelin for upping his game from midweek. He did his job today.

Lacazette should have started. Duh.

I love Hector, but when is he going to learn how to put in a decent cross?

PFo

Coquelin “upped his game from midweek” but he still can’t pass.

Jack4343

Here’s the deal…if you have any notion of beating the big spenders you have to do one of two things. Either spend as much as them or outsmart them with thrifty player signings and out coach them and sadly we do neither. Our showing today is sadly probably the best we had to give.

s786nas

Starting with 5 at the back and four in midfield with one up front – it was obvious we were going to lose. City’s only flaw is their defense and I think Wenger missed an opportunity to exploit that with Sanchez, Ozil and Laccazette upfront. I would’ve liked to see Jack and Ramsey behind them with the Coq protecting the midfield and defense. Shame Wenger lost his balls.

Loose_Cannon

Bonus rating: 0/10 for Wenger’s tactical inflexibility and baffling player selection. We were gassed when we thought we’re were going with 3 in midfield, like the last time we beat City at the Etihad. Give the midfield the reinforcement it desperately needs, and put City under pressure in the middle of the park. But nope! Instead he plays Coquelin at CB and persists with a formation which frankly has been found out. He’s been poor all season, and that didn’t change today, but I felt a bit sorry for him – he’s been done by the manager. And the less said about Lacazette’s exclusion the better.

Another Sam

little point in playing Ozil when he doesn’t play Lacazette (or anyone up front) and Sanchez is playing so poorly.
I’d give them all 4, except maybe a 5 for Cech and Monreal. They look as if they can’t be bothered, the lot of them. All terribly stale. Bizarre choosing Coquelin at CB. I bet it surprised Pep for about 5 seconds.

pajanee

We need danny boy n mustafi back against spurs……wilshere should be ahead of ozil….wats the point of keep playing players whose heart are no longer red n white…lets bench alexis n ozil. Lets built a team of players who want to play for us…..

pajanee

Against spurs…cech
Musta kozzer nachoman
Bella coq rambo kolas
Jack laca welbeck

santori

Urgh…I dread the thought. At current form, we will get beat by them too and there will be all these odious Spurds going on about minding the gap.

pkiwi

I still haven’t been able to watch anything of the game, and yet I keep asking myself 3 questions
1. Why Coquelin?
2. Why didn’t Lacazette start?
3. Given questions 1 and 2, is ‘Arsenal’ post-modern experiential art ironically mocking the nature of the human struggle?

santori

Coquelin didn’t do too bad. You should be asking yourself why Ozil.

PFo

For the fifteen millionth time: Coquelin can’t pass under pressure to save his life; he made some great tackles but should never have been put in central defense.

Ausdrexler

Cech should of saved that Debruyne shot. Ramsey scores on the halftime and different game. But it wasnt and Arsenal really didnt deserve a point even. The difference for me… Mancity make 3 passes and they then look to play an attacking move, Arsenal held ball too long and slowed it down to much.
This teams players are decent but as a unit they are underprerforming to much.

Olivije Zirud

How on Earth he should have saved that? The ball went between the Koscielny’s legs so firstly he didn’t see it and secondly it was a superb finish.

Ausdrexler

He got a weak hand on it mate. A smidgrn of strwngth in his floppy wrist and that ball deflects wide. He did well enough to get down in first place but his hand let him down. He should of done better. It was a top shot. And he did all the hard work to get down and get a hand on it. Cech for me has been showing his age a bit this season… reflexes and movement just a smidgen off. Still top keeper. But he saves that shot 2 years ago .

Alexstratz

The reasons why Özil never performs against big teams are actually quite simple. As one of the best players in this team, he’s always tightly marked. He’s not a player who can dibble his way out of trouble, and when he has less time to be creative, he needs movement, clear positioning (both comes down to tactics), and others’ perfect first touches from less perfect passes. We have none of those luxuries against big teams, and since Özil can’t defend, his flaws become very evident.

Now when Sanchez doesn’t perform that’s another matter. We’ve seen how good he can be in big matches so it’s clearly down to his motivation, or lack of should I say.

Leon

I don’t remember Ozil performing against anyone.
For some reason the auto spell on my computer keeps changing Ozil into Oil
I can think of a better and more fitting word…

Leon

Wenger – Every season the refereeing gets worse.
No it does not.
Every season Arsenal gets worse largely as a result of poor management.
Don’t believe me?
Look at the table – fighting for sixth place…

kas

Do you think finishing 6th or lower will get Wenger out? Methinks not! You could swap the entire City squad for ours & Wenger would ruin them & make them losers.

Bergy

Some very average players in our team.Will never win the league with them.

Diego someone

Expected result and could have been much worse. Referee was shit but so was our team selection. Jack should have started so should have lacazette. How can such a once great team be so tactically inept! I’m so sick of this.

Dr Whale

I thought arsenal are shit without Alexis and Ozil. Contrary to what Santi on this forum always say about Alexis unpredictability, I think he is the most predictable player in Arsenal. Team has figured out how he play, who he like to pass to, his ” me first ” attitude and so easily mark him or frustrate him to play nonsense. Ozil to me will suit our formation in second half when the Grade A opposing team started tiring out. These days, he seems to be a liability starting big matches. I also have the feeling that Mohammed E, Wilshere and Ramsey in midfield with Lacazette and Walcott forward would have given us a favorable result. Wenger forgot that what made Alexis flourish as a top striker last season was because he paired him with Walcott, a player who pull out defense with his runs behind defense and good positioning. Lacazette is another player that have such qualities. I wonder why the manager did not pair Lacazette up with Alexis since he lack trust in Walcott and desperately wanted to field Alexis? Even 4-5-1 with only Giroud as striker, Ramsey supporting and 4 other midfielder ( without Coquelin of course) can beat this Mancity hands down.

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