AST survey results: good for Wenger, not so hot for Stan

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The Arsenal Supporter’s Trust have released the results of their annual survey and it shows strong support for Arsene Wenger, yet disappointment with Stan Kroenke since he became the majority shareholder last year.

82% of respondents believe that Red and White should be offered a place on the Arsenal board while 75% declared themselves dissatisified with ‘Stan Kroenke’s explanation of his Vision for Arsenal Football Club’, which is not to say they’re dissatisfied with Kroenke himself but more at the lack of communication.

Arsenal’s self-sustaining business model is one which the board espouses and this appears to be way forward. 60% of AST respondents believe this is the correct way for the club to be run, while 40% would like to see an ‘outside investment’ / benefactor model. Some 80% would like to see the club explore the possibility of a rights issue or short-term loan to inject additional cash – presumably to invest in the squad.

83% would like to see new appointments to the Arsenal board while 72% want David Dein to play a role at the club. From a ticketing point of view 56% do not believe current ticket prices represent good value, with 31% taking the opposite view.

With regards to football matters, AST members were asked to choose their level of satisfaction with Arsenal’s football performance in recent years and the replies were: Highly Satisfied – 1.5% : Satisfied – 20% : Slightly Satisfied – 40.5% : Unsatisfied – 38%

However, despite those results, there was overwhelming support for Arsene Wenger with 77% in favour of his continuation as manager of the club. Just 15% were not in favour while 8% had no view.

While 89% ranked Wenger and his coaching staff good/very good for ‘playing attractive and entertaining football’ only 7% awarded the same mark for the team’s defensive capabilities (hopefully something Steve Bould can change!), and 76% thought qualifying for the Champions League was more important than winning one or both of the domestic cups.

When asked about the board, 63% felt that the club were in touch with fans but could improve in this area, with 32% saying the club were not connecting properly with supporters, and 41% would like the next statue (if there is one) to be of Dennis Bergkamp (next closest was David Rocastle on 14%).

Note: survey was carried out of 1067 AST members with 636 responses received. The survey was tallied and recorded before the rather tumultuous events of last week.

Download: AST annual survey 2012AST survey trends 2010-12AST member written responses

Visit: Arsenal Supporter’s Trust official website

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145 Comments on "AST survey results: good for Wenger, not so hot for Stan"

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Sean

So will the results of this survey actually be taken into account and possibly bring changes? Or is it just a survey?

Goonerhaea

Apparently, it is unethical to collect data unless you plan to and are in a position to make the required changes. Just saying.

I hope something is done atleast, because otherwise thesenumbers will only go down. I am happy Arsene’s are still up, reflects the position that most people blame the board, they need to shape up or ship out.

GOONERINALLOFUS

It’s definitely not unethical to do a survey or collect opinions, it’s just what some believe. I’ve gotta agree though on the first point, what;s the point of an owner who just sits back and collects dividends? An owner should be pushing his team to be the best, and what the hell has Kroenke done for us? I’m American, but it’s Arsenal 4EVER!

Cygan's Right Foot

As a club we’ve never paid out dividends. Why do people keep thinking we do and the Kroenke just takes money out of the club. The accounts each year show all of this.

Goonerhaea

Well yeah I guess you are right, you can do survey of whatever you like. I am sure it’s just in the health field where it is unethical because I am studying piblic health and that is what my professor told me. It is just that Arsenal s that important to me and I would find it unfair for them to ask my opinion and not do anything about it.

As far as Kroenke goes, he and the board have been pushing the ideology that he only owns the club but the board run it like they did before. They have been saying this from the start and while I don’t expect him to run it like these billionaire owners, Russians and Arabs, i also think that it is a bit stupid for an owner to act like he is not calling the shots. It’s his money at stake so obviously he is!

DENCHures

On the other hand, if the numbers they collect can be used to form a narrative and shape the terms of the debate about how we move forward as a club then they are doing their job as a pressure group well

Charlie

Considering the fact that AST only owns a couple percent of the club’s shares, nothing will come out of it because they have very little power or influence (and I”m being extremely generous). Ivan Gazidis still dignifies them with a meeting now and again.

Goontang

Anything the AST says to the board never seems to have any real effect on decisions. i cannot see why this would change from survey statistics.

drona

Who are those 3 percent members who do not agree with the decision to freeze ST prices?

Theoptimist

Perhaps they thought the prices should have been reduced in line with achievements on the pitch.

Anon

More than likely they are delusional.

cas

A question for you all – What exactly is the point of this survey? it is in no way representative of the fan base so why do they bother? Apart from seeing these results plastered all over Sun newspaper etc I can’t see the reason for it.

Also 600 is such a small number!

In my opinion they should give it a rest.

Blinker

It’s not presented as being representative of all fans, merely AST members.

cas

So what is the point?

cas

Bearing in mind that last time I saw the results in the media it was translated as ‘Arsenal fans’

Goonarmy

Anybody can join at a cost of £30.

RobM

*They* are surveying *their* members. They’re allowed to do that. It’s representative of their members, at least those who could be asked to reply, and while there is no point to it for those of us who are not members of the AST and couldn’t give a flying fuck at a rolling donut what they think, there is certainly a point for them in knowing what their members want and think, yes?

Anon

Sad thing is the media loves to say AST is representative of all AFC fans.

RobM

@Anon – of course they do. Reporters are as lazy as the best of us. If they can get a quote from a group of people who sound like they might be representative of a large group of fans then that will do them. You don’t get down the pub by 6pm by staying late to research stuff!

If you read newspaper reports on other clubs with an eye on this sort of stuff, you’ll find it goes on all the time. It isn’t a conspiracy theory (at least not one against Arsenal, per se), rather it’s just a bunch of lazy reports who don’t want to do more work than they have to who grab the first quote they can from the first vaguely reasonable sounding group of fans they can find.

Anon

The confusing thing is why AST doesn’t invite other non-AST Arsenal fans for polling. What the fuck would a non-AST member polled by AST represent anyway? It’s not like it’s going to be incredibly hard.

Heck they can just separate the two categories, then there will be less suspicions of rigging.

Theoptimist

Maybe we should all join AST so we can have our voices heard. Instead of moaning that they don’t represent us.

Miguel

Do we know if the AST members are generally more or less positive or negative about the current regime/live within your means approach? I get that they’re only polling their 600 members, but is there a reason to believe they don’t actually reflect the range of opinions of arsenal supporters generally? Other than chance I mean. I wonder if there differences between AST and others that are clear. It’s a self-selecting group, but I don’t know what that means in practice here. I’m not sure I’m being clear, but if anyone understands and has some thoughts on this, I’d love to hear it.

Anon

Not everyone thinks joining the AST is a blessing. And not many would bother to.

Anon

Arsenal average 59 900-ish on attendance. A few thousand are no doubt away supporters, so let’s be incredibly generous and say there are 30 000 Arsenal fans every home match.

600 / 30 000 x 100% = 2%

Conclusion:
A grand total of, at most, 2% of fans who attend games at the Emirates were polled.

But of course, ST holders PAY MORE for their dose of Arsenal, so there’s no helping in being impatient and unsatisfied (IIRC 1 Arsenal ST can pay for 3 Montpellier ST’s, who won Ligue 1 last season, very expensive), not surprised these people want Usmanov. Not everyone is an economist/humanrightsactivist/pride-hunter/richperson.

Theoptimist

How do you take ‘a few thousand’ from 59,900 and end up with 30,000? That’s half.

Anon

Oops, was going for 55 000 but then said fuck it let’s just halve it.

Didn’t proofread.

14 is the new 12

In the world of statistics you don’t need more than around 30 respondents before it is representative – that would say you can add as many people to the fan group but the percentages are still about right after the number of respondents gets higher than 30 people.
However, this is only true if the respondents to the survey was taken randomly from the whole fanbase of Arsenal, which is not the case – so the survey is only saying something about the AST members who wants to participate in the survey – which btw is probably the one who is most dissatisfied/ have the highest desire to let there feelings be known.

Sorry, don’t know why I started this novel – all I wanted to say is that the problem is not the number of fans being asked but that the fans are not randomly picked if you want to know the sentiment of all gunners.

Peter

Er, your overall point is right, 14/12, but your statistical techniques are way off. A sample size of 30 will get you a margin of error of +/- 18 percentage points. That’s huge, and not in any way “representative”. On the other hand, a random sample of about 600 people is reasonably robust: margin of error of +/- 4 points. (To be clear, what this is means is that, on average, if you took 20 random samples and asked each of them a question, you’d expect that in one of those cases, you’d get a figure that is more than four points away from the “true” value.)

Typically, public opinion polls will survey between 500-1000 people. Beyond that range, your costs will rise but you don’t get a lot of benefit in terms of reducing the error. A survey of 1,500 people is not much better than a survey of 1,000. And a survey of 2,500 people isn’t much better than a survey of 1,500.

This being said, the AST survey is not necessarily representative. The 1067 fans to whom surveys were sent were presumably selected randomly, but the 636 who responded form a self-selecting sample: so the question is, are the 636 who responded representative of the 1067 who were initially contacted? And then you have to ask how representative AST members are of the Arsenal supporter base as a whole: I think the intuitive answer is, not very.

This being said, I think some of the numbers here are fairly solid. Aside from any statistical validity, much of this will simply come down to whether you value the opinions of AST members in the first place. Personally, I think the views of AST members – while not exactly being authoritative – are more interesting than the views of the many random armchair experts who have never forked out for any club merchandise let alone a ticket but who sit around all day angrily rubbishing Wenger’s managerial skills.

(You can tell I’ve worked in academia…)

14 is the new 12

Sorry, I started this off topic talk – the poll will show something about the AST members opinion, which may be interesting or not. The rest of my comments is just non-relevant filling.

And Peter you are right that for public opinion polls you usually need 500-1000/1500. However, if you assume that the gunners supporter are a more homogenous group than the UK/world population in general then you can reduce this required number significantly – although 30 probably is to low since it requires standard normal distribution.

boshbosh

Let me get this straight, only 1.5% of AST members are highly satisfied with Wenger’s performance – only 21.5% even satisfied – and you take that as “good for Wenger”. That has to be the lamest propaganda headline I’ve ever seen.

feygooner

Did you not notice that 77% were in favour of his being manager?

You can believe that the manager did a good job (with the resources available to him) and still not be very happy with the team (because there weren’t enough resources available).

boshbosh

They’re in the club’s back pocket you fool. Evidently, they don’t even know what they want. All I know is, if 80% are not particularly satisfied with a manager then how on earth can that be good?

Anon

Look at the comment below mine.

Frog

Excellent reading mate. Maybe you should try to READ IT one more time.

Dr Baptiste

“With regards to football matters, AST members were asked to choose their level of satisfaction with Arsenal’s football performance in recent years and the replies were: Highly Satisfied – 1.5% : Satisfied – 20% : Slightly Satisfied – 40.5% : Unsatisfied – 38%”
&
“However, despite those results, there was overwhelming support for Arsene Wenger with 77% in favour of his continuation as manager of the club. Just 15% were not in favour while 8% had no view.”

One is based on the clubs performance as a whole while the other is based on how people think Arsene has done. Read it properly before you make incorrect statements

walter the gunner

I take this precious time to appreciate Mr Arsene Wenger for his contribution to Arsenal.,for being always there when we needed him most unlike some people we know.we are behind u in support as u put tremendous effort in restoring our glory.thank you though mine is just words of appreciation of which I could afford,you deserve more.keep the good work.

Frog

So you learned how to spell the word “you” half way through your post? Bizarre eh?

Redhair

Arsebloger doesn t need bullies on his blog to protect his blog from the stupid remarks. Stop replaying and find a life.

Dr Baptiste

It’s not really bullying when you point out a lack of grammar. I mean if it is then you went to a bloody posh school as being called fat was bullying where I went all those years ago.

Frog

When do we play Sunderland? I so sick of this bullshit.

Frog

*i’m. Edit button please blogs.

Ref

Next time proof read your post

Anon

lazy

THEREISBEARCUM

You should probably think about editing your post to put a full stop at the end of your sentence there.

Oh wait, you can’t do that.

Next time, proof read your post!

Redhair

Stop replaying and find a life.

Dr Baptiste

That would be ‘get a life’ and not ‘find a life’. Also it’s replying and not replaying, as they are two different things…. Just saying.

Frog

Or, you guys can all go fuck yourselves. Did I edit that sufficiently?

THEREISBEARCUM

I’d give it about 8/10.

Ref

You sir are a frog.

Domhuaille MacMathghamhna
Domhuaille MacMathghamhna

Ribett……ribett……Ribery ribett…..

Merlin's Panini

heh.

182189

AST are completely impotent. They’ll never rock the boat or Gazidis will cut them off. Waste of space.

Ref

I think usmanov takes all the “space”.

Jonathan

Is there any reason why fans wouldn’t want Dein back?

Don

Because when he was at the club he brought in top class players and we won trophies.What have we won since he was booted out?Remember it was David Dein who brought in Wenger

Anon

Wikipedia:

Non sequitur – Fallacy of false cause, Latin for “It does not follow”
cum hoc ergo propter hoc: believing that correlation implies a causal relation.

Example
Argument: More cows die in the summer months. More ice cream is consumed in summer months. Therefore, the consumption of ice cream in the summer months is killing cows.

Problem: No premise suggests the ice cream consumption is causing the deaths. The deaths and consumption could be unrelated, or something else could be causing both, such as summer heat.

QED.

Anon

To be honest, the only thing I’ve ever heard David Dein do was ‘bring in Arsene Wenger’. Fair enough, but then everyone stops there…

thw14

To the Wiki whore – at least try to respond to the content of the argument rather than lecturing people on how to frame them.

Can’t believe this patronising bullshit finds supporters.

Anon

To the moron:

Realize that he is equating the correlation between David Dein’s tenure and the successful periods of the club to be the obvious source of causation, which it obviously is not for many factors including the fact that David Dein does not and cannot do everything, and also the fact that today is not 2000 A.D., which had less Chelseas and Manchester Cities and PSG’s inflating the whole market with ridiculous wages and transfer fees.

Realize that you have to be a moron not to find the most pain-stakingly obvious of flaws within his arguments, and also realize that me pointing what his logical fallacy was was a way to hint as well as embarrass him publicly by stating that his logical assumptions, and thus conclusions were plainly stupid, and that the fallacy of false cause had occurred, which, if you are even remotely smart, would realize in an instant.

Also, 39 likes, 3 dislikes atm, some patronising shit this is!

Patronising is okay, as long as the person you’re patronising / condescending had stated something incredibly stupid / is a moron.

QED.

MJB

His son’s actions leave a lot to be desired. That’s 1 reason.

kashdlasfal

Dennis Bergkamp is a God.

Frog

There is no god.

Sorry, slow day at work. I’ll stop posting now.

Ref

Please do

North Bank Gooner

there bloody is, he wears no.10 on his back, and doesnt like flying 😉

Frog

What kind of superhero doesn’t fly?

So if Rvp had stuck around and scored another few dozen goals over the next tree years, would that make him more or less of a god than db?

I’ll never understand this idolizing of athletes. Most of them are uneducated, arrogant twats.

kiss my arsenal

spiderman doesn’t fly 😉

Redhair

You better, and please find a life.

A Yank

Ergo, there is no Dennis Bergkamp.

I’m sure he’ll be disappointed to learn that.

lordgunner

frog MR T is a superhero sort of (well him and his bad ass motherfucking team) and doesnt like flying either,
actually very few of superhero fly as another superhero(ish) say i dont fly, i falling in style 😉

Ref

Ahh flying is easy……it’s all about jumping to the ground and completly missing it.

Jamie

Well I understand the sentiment, but DB is probably the most educated, least arrogant footballer I can think of, in addition to his skill.

MJB

Imagine that, a statue of God!
🙂

TeeCee

Even better. If we have an honest-to-Bergkamp Temple of Football, with an actual statue of God to prove it, surely Arsenal officially becomes a religion and tax-exempt?

uncle-sam

Hope this result of this survey will be considered. Its high time Usmanov becomes a board member. We need to invest heavily but sensibly as well. Stan Kroenke and Gazidis are running this great club the either sit up or leave. David Dein should also be given a role in the club he knows what it takes to keep our best players + he has the interest of fans at heart. Gunner4Life!

boshbosh

The fact that they won’t even discuss with Usmanov tells me they don’ have the best interests of the club at heart. What possible harm can it do even if they tell him to fuck off?

Just pours more gasoline on the theory that Kroenke is happy for the club to go absolutely nowhere until he can get out at the right time and earn himself an absolute fucking fortune.

Mills N7

You’d think if David Dein had the best interests of the club at heart he’d have words with his son about getting our best players to agitate for a move away, and advising our (soon to be ex-) Club Captain to stick the boot into the club via his personal website.

David Dein was a force for good at Arsenal, but when he fell out with the board, instead of being constructive (as you’d expect someone with the ‘best interests’ of the club at heart), he cashed out at great personal profit and is now an eternal thorn in the side of the club. If he wants change, then work constructively for it. Don’t pick at the club’s open wounds at the first opportunity. And he REALLY should have a word with Darren about his activities.

Don’t get me wrong, Dein is a much bigger fan than Jabba or Silent Stan (not difficult), but the ideals of collective responsibility and dignity (which Wenger clearly understands, not airing his dirty laundry with the club’s hierarchy in public) seem to have passed David Dein right by…

Still, if he comes back and Jabba gets a seat on the board (difficult to have one without the other) and things are more amicable and people can work through their differences constructively, then I’ll be cautiously optimistic. However if a load of sugar-daddy money is pumped in for the sake of a couple of short term trophies, I’d have to question the long-term vision of the club. I’ve been an arsenal fan for two decades and I hope to be one for 4 or 5 more. Not a fan of Arsenal Newco fighting it out in League Two, if I can possibly help it.

boshbosh

Why shouldn’t Dein cash in? They sacked him?

As for his son, don’t be absurd. His son cannot MAKE a player stay or go, it’s up to the player – and if the player wants to go then the agent has to do the most professional job he can to ensure that happens. That’s what he’s paid for.

If you think agents control players minds like you control a football in FIFA12 you’re barking mad.

Anon

Player: “Agent, I’m at a crossroads, what career path should I take next?”
Agent: “You should join Manchester City and here are the reasons why”

Player, who is not Adam Smith, Newton or anyone paid to take great details on information becomes swayed by Agent’s words, as it IS what football agents make a living of, swaying people to buy their products.

Player: “Wow, that was a very reasonable proposition.”
Agent: “Yes, although there are another thousand reasons why you shouldn’t join Manchester City, I am not going to tell you because joining Manchester City is very important to your career”
Player: “I’ll think about it… you made really good points. My decision is at least slightly swayed.”

Miguel

Bosh Bosh, I think one would be mad to deny agents’ influence over players as well. Yes, when push comes to shove, if a player doesn’t want to move, the agent can’t make him. But he can be in a player’s ear stirring up shit. Why would he do that? One would be mad to think he would have a personal pecuniary interest in big money moves, of which he takes a cut. Agents don’t get paid more if their clients to stay at clubs, even if in the long term a move might be against their interest. See, hleb, alexander; adebayor, emmanuel. Agents don’t control players minds but they often focus on short-range goals, i.e., more money), over long-term goals, like stability, happiness, time on the pitch, etc. For the typical agent, the grass is ALWAYS greener elsewhere.

Clock End Mike

Very well said, Mills N7.

wallstreet

Darren is a agent. He must, above all else, have his clients’ best interests at heart. “Best” is of course somewhat debatable, but in the sports world is clearly the “most lucrative.” It would be entirely unprofessional for David Dein to pressure his son in any way (and for at least some of us with adult sons, I’m sure we can appreciate how difficult it is for us to get them to really listen to us at all!)

As far as his rabble rousing is concerned, David seems to have no other options, really. He’s a true Gooner but obviously has some real concerns. He’s always been one for the limelight. And considering how close he and Arsène continue to be, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of what David says is still him doing Arsène’s “dirty work” for him.

Yanbi Manga Diarra

At the end of the day the board don’t give a monkeys about the AST.

They have only about 600 fans who have no clue in the financial and perspective aspect of the inner workings of the club.

Met a few of them and trust me, they have no real power and are definately not reresentitive of the fanbase.

The AFSC are the largest arsenal group and they actually own share of the club.

t00ny

It’s really weird how 82% want Red & White to be a part of the board, while 60% don’t want any outside investment, the same thing Usmanov is supporting and planning to do if he becomes a part of the board.

Mills N7

I think the difference can be explained by the fact that some fans want Usmanov on the board to make things more amicable, whilst still resisting dangerously short-term investment. If he comes onto the board that might make him more willing not to kick the club in the ‘nads at the first opportunity to get some publicity. (Still, I’m not optimistic that Stan will let him, because I don’t think Usmanov is ever going to just be satisfied with a seat on the board.)

wallstreet

1 – Red and White owns nearly 30% of the club. At just about any other “normal” company, that would entitle such a major shareholder a seat on the board. I would certainly want a board seat at any company I owned 30% of, as I’m sure would many of you. Most of the board members now own zero to a de minimis amount of shares.

2 – If you look at the original report of the survey, “outside investment” is defined as the “benefactor” model (i.e., what Abramovich does). This is different from what Usmanov is proposing (though one may understandably doubts his true intentions). Most of the survey respondents also indicated support for a rights issue, which Red & White has been advocating. A rights issue would almost fall in between the self-sustaining and benefactor model, as it would result in significant investment but from existing shareholders (including Usmanov and Kroenke — though Kroenke would be highly unlikely to participate).

3 – As otherwise indicated in the survey, there is great dissatisfaction with Kroenke and the board in general. Hence, there is a desire to “shake things up” a bit.

Last arse

99% of the fans want the Club to buy a new trophy cabinet for the trophies Arsenal will win next season and beyond!

MJG

Kroenke’s motto is “mediocrity and profit”. That cunt needs to fuck off back to his Walmart heiress wife and bring Gazidis with him.

Anon

Arsenal doesn’t pay dividends to its shareholders.

Kroenke would be stupid to ruin Arsenal and sell it for a ‘profit’. It will a) ruin his reputation as a sports investor (remember SKE) and b) see a.

Look, Usmanov was moronic as well. When he saw Kroenke quickly buying his shares from Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith, the late Danny Fiszman, etc etc, what did he do? Sit on his ass? That or everyone who owned shares didn’t want to sell to him, but that’d be unlikely.

Then again…

MJB

What does Stan actually do to benefit our club?
When things are going tits-up he does nothing, when things are going great he does nothing. Why bother being involved with The Arsenal if you don’t want to contribute?
He’s obviously waiting to reap the dividends when we start winning again and appears to have zero interest in football.
Might as well get a plastic mannequin with a glued on moustache on it to take his place at meetings/appearances.

Dr Baptiste

Again Arsenal have never paid out dividends and this is shown in the accounts each year, so please stop using this as a reason for why Kroenke wants to own Arsenal.

MJB

Ok, dividends or not, Why is Stan involved then? He is a business man, he wants to make money as that is what business men do. He still appears to have zero contribution towards a team he has majority shares in. Why?

Mills N7

The reason Stan has invested in Arsenal, presumably, is because they are a safe investment, unlikely to crash, and the value of the shares will rise above inflation over, say a 15 year period, so long as Arsenal keep making the Champions League, say, 2 out of every three years (that’s just an educated guess). Therefore, in times of economic uncertainty, if you don’t want millions wiped off your money by inflation or other investments going south, there’s worse things you can do than invest in Arsenal. And I’ve not even touched on the prestige factor. Perhaps Kronke is playing the long game and will cash out when Usmanov offers him silly money (say 25% return on the investment he made). That’d be disappointing, but then Stan has no relationship with the Arsenal fans, so why should he care? Maybe this is all an elaborate bluff to get Usmanov to give him lots and lots of money. My glass is half empty today…

Corny

I don’t get the not representation nonsense spouted above, why moan about it reflecting your view. How about sign up to AST (which is cheap) and get your view counting in a way it CAN be conveyed to the club. More numbers equals more weight and more weight means more effect.

Anon

I wouldn’t spend my hard-earned cash on an organization like AST.

I wouldn’t want to spend money so that I can get polled from AST, it’s as if it would matter. I of course take part in twitter polls which are far more easier to access, more convenient and more likely to be more representative. There are twitter accounts primarily concerned with Arsenal that have more than thrice the members AST have.

I don’t really respect Tim Payton all that much, and sometimes the AST has greatly disappointed me..

Anon

“I wouldn’t spend my hard-earned cash on an organization like AST.”

Edit button please, wasn’t trying to imply AST was an awful organization, bad phrasing.

Corny

AST is its members, views of AST are its members. Don’t understand the point

Don

Kroenke and Gazidis will ignore everything in the survey

Gunnermaniac

They’re to busy trying to sell Van Persie.

Rob'67

So this is based on 636 responses. I wouldn’t draw too many conclusions from this.

THEREISBEARCUM

You can draw 636 conclusions…

usufh

I don’t think these results can be trusted. I don’t know a single Arsenal supporter that is happy with Wenger – not one. I wouldn’t be surprised if these results are made up just to curry favour with Gazidis. Without their 10 shares or whatever and annual meeting where they sit there like stuffed animals afraid to speak in case Gazidis walks out and never speaks to them again, what actual use are they?

Anon

I think we should get to know each other.

Then you can cross out that second sentence.

Anon

Regardless, whatever the results of the poll, the number of people who responded represented BELOW 2% OF THE AVERAGE NUMBER OF ARSENAL FANS IN HOME GAMES.

How 2% can ever be representative in anyone’s eyes is beyond me. Unless they are elementary school children.

MJB

I guess it represents the fans who are actually so bothered about the club they support so much they are willing to try to affect change through buying into it.
I think its a good thing the more numbers the more changes can be shaped by the fans. It may not be much but you have to start somewhere and sitting on your arse twittering aint gonna change a thing in the real world.

AR

Why can’t the results be trusted? 636 people responded to the survey and these are their views. What is not to be trusted? Can 600+ people not have differing views? Do these views represent all Arsenal fans worldwide? No. But then I can think of thousands and thousands who would immediately pour water on your first 2 sentences. Does that take anything away from your opinion? No again. You have your views, they have theirs. To question another point of view as being ‘untrustworthy’ or less valid because it is so far apart from what goes on in your mind is frankly silly.

Nowhere does it state that it’s representative of all fans and Arseblogger has merely reported the findings of AST’s own survey. If I were to survey my household and find that 100% of them loved Andre Santos that does not necessarily mean the whole world loves him (though I don’t see why they wouldn’t)!! People get all worked up about the strangest things these days!

North Bank Gooner

err, if you dont know any, there are lots of us here. very happy in fact.

DarylC

You must not know many Arsenal fans then. I don’t know any that ARENT happy with Wenger…

By the way, Arsene bashers of the world, please name a (realistic) manager you’d rather have at our club who you’d think could definitely do a better job!

Frog

I wouldn’t trade wenger for any manager on the planet. You sir, don’t know many arsenal supporters.

Redhair

You promised man that you ll stop. Last chance man….. silence?….. thank you

Frog

…..and……. It appears I have a cyber stalker; and an illiterate one too!!!!!!

ETID

Well thats where u are wrong i know plenty that are unhappy with wenger. whilst i am not one of them as i am constantly in disagreement with these pals of mine there are plenty of others out there. none of whom including me are anything to do with AST. The fact is the majority want trophies yet the majority is not getting that and they wont unless the board wakes up and realises the current strategy is not working to achieve the aspirations of the supporters. my opinion is changing the manager under the current strategy is pointless because the manager is achieving exactly what the board wants him to. however if the board was to change its strategy i am not sure the manager would change his. financially it is a fantastic model one that every club in the world envies. however on the pitch the club is scraping by in the trophy cabinet…………well over the last 7 seasons birmingham portsmouth and even them up the road have won more than us. whilst united and chelsea lead the way with liverpool and the spendaholics also leaving us trailing in their wake. something needs to change and for me the only thing that should is some recognition of the 2nd largest shareholder. A truce and some peace time to bring some stability to the unrest at the top level and to slow down or stop our best players leaving the club. would it really hurt if they and we could all get along? we are supposed to all have the interest of the club at heart yet there are so many fractions arguing and having difference of opinions. a bit of sizeable investment to strengthen the squad in doing so reduce the size of the squad so that the salaries on offer can be proportioned where they should be (quality not quantity) and may be have a ticket pricing policy that reflects achievement on the pitch. No one minds paying top prices for the top quality of anything but when you orddr the finest steak in a restaurant if its not cooked to perfection you simply send it back or they knock it off your bill or at least half of it. A simple cashback scheme on season ticket prices if the club fails to win trophies would appease many fans and it is not as ridiculous as it sounds. nearly every player has built into his contract bonuses and payments to previous clubs for success on the pitch so why not the supporters?

Eskie

A lot of short memories around!
Yes Dein WAS good for the club upto around 2000 then he realised how much money he could make regardless of the consequences to the club and had no qualms at bringing scumbags of the worst kind into the club, who despite press releases to the contrary don’t give a feck about Arsenal, only in how much they can make.
As for his son, he has been instrumental in driving away many of our best players from the club for the past 10 years in his role as a players agent, but hasn’t bought in one player to the club!!!
Please remove the rose tinted spectacles about Dein, he used to care about Arsenal, now he ONLY cares for his wallet!

Ref

Is it okay if I say I don’t give 2 shits! about the damn survey?.

Rick

It’s okay since most people don’t give 2 shits about your opininion on the survey.

Anon

1 shit?

Ref

Why you hurt my feelings rick…..*tail between legs and runs skeddadles away.

Domhuaille MacMathghamhna
Domhuaille MacMathghamhna

I don’t want your shits but glad to hear you aren’t constipated anymore!

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[…] GA_googleFillSlot("TD_Forum_125X125_1"); GA_googleFillSlot("TD_Forum_125X125_2"); AST survey results: good for Wenger, not so hot for Stan | Arseblog News – the Arsenal news si… Wenger's popular rating up to 77%. Last summer it was around 40. […]

Wingers

8% don’t want Wenger in charge? Wow, I didn’t realise Le Grove had such a massive readership!!!!

Anon

600 / 100 * 8

I didn’t know only 48 people read LG. That’s good to know.

Wingers

Yeah fair point. Shoulda read the part at the bottom that began with ‘note:’. Hmm…

Also why I ended up selling a kidney to cover a payday loan…

j

There should be a survey carried out on how many sports club Stan has taken over with trophies to their name whilst cutting down expenses.

GoonerDave

Something stinks at the ownership/boardroom level.
Our owner has yet to properly address us – why? I suspect its because we would not like the answers he might give us.
Why have we become so anal about our philosophy? I actually agree with the philosophy of AFC on the whole, its great to be self sufficient and not rely on loans or outside investment. I just cannot understand why we have to stick so rigidly to it every year. Surely its ok to buy a top player now and then?
Sadly, the only investment we see in the club are facilities, stadium etc. We seem to have no problem at all investing in fixed assets.
We either have far less money than we think, or our club is being primed for a debt-free sale to the highest bidder. Kroenke is in sports for the money, what better way than paying off the debt in a stupidly short time by selling our best players?

GarmentDistrict

+1 for a Dennis statue…Best Arsenal player ever

Dr Baptiste

What about Francis “Fox-in-the-Box” Jeffers?

gg

Arsenal fans shouldn’t bother turning up for matches, sell the tickets to oppisation fans

Domhuaille MacMathghamhna
Domhuaille MacMathghamhna

What’s an oppisation fan? A spudscum sad sack cunt like you or maybe a opium smoking, brain damaged cretin….also like you!

heihaci

it’s always the silent ones that are lethal!

Ref

Your awful spelling stinks of a brain- washed spurs fan with obviously no life. Off you go.

Red&White

In Arsene we should all trust, where would we be without him?? True arsenal great and should never be doubted….ever..!!!

wallstreet

Good on the AST for these survey results. In particular, good on them for supporting Wenger and advocating a board seat for Red & White, a rights issue, dissatisfaction with Kroenke and the board.

I shudder at the thought of where Arsenal would be without Wenger, particularly during the Kroenke years. We almost certainly would not have continued to qualify for UCL.

Board seat for Red & White makes total sense, particularly in light of dissatisfaction with SK, PHW and the board generally. It’s simply good corporate governance as well to have such a major shareholder (30%!) represented on the board.

A one-time rights issue also makes total sense. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to compete in the EPL with all of the oligarch and oil money — a one-time rights issue would shore up Wenger’s “war chest” and enable him to go that extra bit to secure top-class players. I have full confidence with Wenger at the helm that he would not spend silly money on a Torres or a Carroll. It would nice to not have to just totally give up if we know that Chelsea and City are after a particular player. It would also be nice to retain our best players, which we are obviously having some difficulty doing. And these next couple of years are critical — we will be signing up our new commercial deals in the next couple of years and our performance on the pitch will therefore have that much more importance.

But of course, this is all silliness because Kroenke will never allow a rights issue. Kroenke would certainly not invest and would be diluted. Usmanov would almost certainly invest and would therefore gain more shares, while investing directly into the club for the first time (as opposed to giving money to former shareholders). Incidentally, if it were a 100m GBP rights issue (as has been hypothesized), Usmanov would only increase his shareholding to ~36% or so (if he took up the entire offering) and would therefore still be very much a minority shareholder — he will only ever become a majority shareholder if/when Kroenke decides to sell.

I have seen a lot of silliness on other blogs questioning whether or not Usmanov will invest, since he hasn’t invested directly in the club yet. This is complete nonsense, as anyone with any kind of corporate finance background could tell you — a rights issue is the best mechanism for him to invest in the club. He hasn’t had an occasion to do it yet, because of Kroenke’s resistance.

Svendude

On the face of it, a board seat for R&W seems reasonable, because they own 30% of shares. No argument there. After last week, however, that just seems insane. The very clear picture that R&W have painted is that they’re prepared to cause massive damage to the Club in pursuit of their agenda, whatever that is. Who in their right mind would want such a disruptive and cynical group of people at the helm of the club?

There’s lots of talk of a rights issue but can you explain what that actually is and what it means? It seems to be frequently touted as some sort of magical source of cash, but there’s no such thing as free money, so what’s the flip side? Usmanov (or anyone else) isn’t going to chuck millions into a venture without getting something back, so what’s in it for them?

The AST survey, for all it’s criticism of the current management, is 60% in favour of the self-sustaining model. Yet they want R&W on the board and a rights issue. Is that not a contradiction? R&W’s statement clearly supports the view that AFC should compete on the transfer market by matching or bettering MCFC’s wage offers. That hardly seems self-sustaining, and as far away from good corporate governance as you can get.

Sravaldio

So not investing in the squad and expecting your only profit to come from selling your best players while keeping mediocre players on massive wages is sustanable? Would you rather have Goetze on 120 k a week or have diaby and denilson with a combined 120 k a week? I’m really getting fed up of the slating of R&W. All they want to do is the run the club properly. Investing in the squad and getting rid of players who are paid too much and then bring in players that will give us a chance of winning something and make us ambitious again. The rights issue is a perfectly normal way of raising cash in a buisness and the only reason the current board don’t want it is because Stan can’t afford the shares he has let alone having to buy more which would leave it open to Usmanov. All R&W are showing with the rights issue is that Stan can’t afford this club. He had to borrow the money to the shares in the first place from Deutch bank and thats why our club can’t buy players because we have a club with debt and an owner with a load of debt of his own. The current board are the worst thing that could ever happen to this club and we need them out. R&W simply want us to become a football club again.

Svendude

Sravaldio, sorry mate, I must be retarded, so you’ll have to explain to me in small words how signing Podolski and Giroud equals “not investing in the squad”.

Also, your statement that the club is in debt because of SKE share purchase (in effect what I think they call a leveraged buyout) is a blatant lie. Or can you prove your assertion?

Agreed, the Club have players on higher wages than they should be, and as a result we struggle to move them on. But you can’t have it both ways. If you want us to compete with the oligarchs, then we have to do the same as they do, which is contract players on inflated wages and if they don’t come good, sell them at a massive loss. So, it’s a complete logic fail to argue for aggressive player pruchasing and against high wages for players who don’t end up delivering in the same breath.

Jeremy

I just hope the AST and Usmanov joined forces to prise open the club’s financial records. I think the supporters had been sidelined from what is happening to the club for too long.

It’s time to know the truth about what Kronke and PHW had been doing all these while.

Svendude

I honestly don’t understand what you mean Jeremy. AFC publish accounts every year, which then usually leads to several articles here by SwissRambler and the like. So what exactly do you mean, or are you just trolling?

Svendude

They wan’t David Dein and R&W on the Board? Are they insane? Mind you, this survey was before last week’s debacle. I would love to see the results of a repeat poll conducted now.

Any AST members here who would now vote differently?

Ozari

I want Arsenal to win the league so badly.

Merlin's Panini

So 431 AST members couldn’t be arsed to take the survey?
Surely if they want to be listened to they should all be taking part.

Sravaldio

The thing is the AST are so worried they will loose there seat at the top table they will never rock the boat enough to actually do something. They have too much too loose. For me the survey showed one thing that AW has pretty much everyone’s support and Kroneke does not. That a lack of investment in the squad is destroying this club and IVan and Stan couldn’t care less. Loosing your star players evry summer, the lowest commercial deals of the top six clubs and spiralling wage bill for players who some of which should never been aloud to wear the shirt is about as far away from sustanable as possible. We need Usmanov in and stop mucking around playing games which is what these Yanks are doing protecting Stan at ALL costs even our club. Lets get Usmanov and Dein In please sign the petition to save our club and we really can move forward
http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/savearsenalfc

Svendude

You do realise you put “lack of investment in the squad” and “spiralling wage bill” in the same sentence, right?

And that you want people on the board who actively assist competing clubs tap up our players?

And that the club have explained time and again why our current commercial deals are what they are? I mean, as a fan, surely it cannot have escaped your notice that we no longer play at Highbury?

Nasri's prosthetic chin
Nasri's prosthetic chin

Promoting a petition to get Usmanov and Dein on the board? You really swallowed that post-RVP letter from R&W hook, line and sinker, didn’t you Sravaldio?

Anyone prepared to spend half an hour scanning the Arsenal blogs could make themselves sound appealing to frustrated fans, which is exactly what R&W’s team has done. It’s as patronising and transparent as RVP’s statement, in my opinion. The sad thing is that there’s enough frustration among the fanbase for it get some traction.

Oh, and this has to be a contender for the worst sentence in the comments today: ‘Loosing your star players evry summer, the lowest commercial deals of the top six clubs and spiralling wage bill for players who some of which should never been aloud to wear the shirt is about as far away from sustanable as possible’

Nick

Am I the only one upset that more AST members didn’t participate? I would hope that at least 75%-80% or more would be involved, especially given the current state of things.

I think the best thing Arsenal could do at this point is to have better communication with the fans. A little bit goes a long way and all the fans need is some clear communication as to the direction of things. If RVP can make a statement like he did about his view of the “direction” Arsenal are heading then wouldn’t it be prudent to have a spokesman come out and say “this is the direction we’re headed, explain it and then say we’re sorry our opinions differ. No one player is bigger than AFC, etc”. I realize they all have jobs to do, but they wouldn’t have their great jobs without the fans paying for and supporting AFC. The supporters are the spine of AFC and have the ability to paralyze the club if broken. Having better communication about where we’re headed as a club (not just for those with huge investments in…. and profits from AFC) is drastically needed. A few vague statements we’ve heard countless times before does nothing but spurn the current state of discontent and unrest shared by a majority of the fans.

I think there is still a large % of support for Arsene because we honestly don’t know who’s controlling things. If we were to be told Arsene has no say in how much money is available vs. there is X amount to spend and Arsene refuses to spend it for example would, I think, alter the way a lot of fans feel about him. As it stands the large portion of anger is directed at the board & Stan, and rightly so. Possibly the reason there is a lack of info is to protect Arsene and his position as the rest of the power brokers are pretty much faceless to us all.

MacNu1ty

The AST have about as much power as those two wankers who sit either side of Alan Sugar on The Apprentice!