Thursday, January 27, 2022

Alonso claims he didn’t foul Hector Bellerin

Marcos Alonso says the forearm smash he delivered to Hector Bellerin, which rendered the Arsenal full-back almost unconscious and left him concussed, was not a foul.

The Chelsea player headed his side in front moments after leaving his Spanish compatriot twitching on the floor, but despite leading with his elbow in what was clearly dangerous play, he says there was no foul play on his part.

While nobody is saying there was any real intent on Alonso’s part, it was still reckless play that endangered the safety of an opponent – as evidenced by the fact Bellerin landed flat on his back and had to undergo some minutes of treatment before being taken off.

Such was the impact of this ‘not a foul’, that Arsene Wenger revealed afterwards that the 21 year old didn’t even realise a goal had been scored.

“I’m sorry for Bellerin but I didn’t foul him,” said Alonso, who was lucky to escape without even a booking for his actions.

“I jumped a bit higher and got to the ball first, I didn’t even see him coming so I don’t think it’s a free-kick.

“I feel sorry for him, he’s a good friend but I didn’t see him. I hope he’s okay.”

Which is all well and good, except it was a foul, and Premier League guidelines regarding concussion mean that Bellerin could well miss this weekend’s game against Hull – more details on that here.

It means Arsene Wenger will have to decide between playing Gabriel out of position, or bringing back one of his two out of favour right-backs, Carl Jenkinson or Mathieu Debuchy.

For more on the Alonso elbow, media reaction to it and more, check out this week’s Arsecast Extra

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Philip Bee

‘good friend?’ ‘hope he’s okay’?
I was waiting for the ‘checked with him after the game, no hard feelings etc’
He hasn’t even called!

Lula da Gilberto

its a clear and obvious foul. and having just listened to the Arsecast this week, I agree with blogs. I’m getting more and more convinced there are order from up on high. I’m not saying there is as I do not and possibly cannot know, but could it be remotely possible that funding bodies of the refereeing association have an influence on how the law is applied? I say only because there are statistical examples which show the same teams getting screwed over time and again by ineptitude – Mike Dean and Arsenal among the most obvious. And then the… Read more »

Mike

Just heard shearer on MOTD say ” it’s NOT a foul, he’s Been aggressive ”

It is a foul. An accidental one , but it was a foul.

It is amazing how not one pundit agrees with this. Maybe everyone just does hate arsenal

assistantref

Given Alonso’s record with literally killing his friends while engaged in reckless, irresponsible behavior…it does kinda seem to fit with what we know about the guy.

Terrible, terrible person.

GunnAlex

If I bought a car that was modified, but I didn’t know this and therefore didn’t mention it to my insurer. In the event of an incident and it became apparent that my car was modified (regardless of whether this would have made a difference in the incident). My insurance would be null and void.
Basically what my really around point is. Just because you didn’t see him, or think it wasn’t a foul. Does not make it any less of a foul.

In other news, insurance companies are bastards.

Dan Hunter

Fuck insurance. It’s a scam. Just join the Freeman On The Land movement. Personally, I don’t even bother with insurance. Good luck drivers… now you can’t just crash into me for no reason.

Jasonissimo

Your insurance would also protect the poor, unfortunate souls that YOU crash into, which is why its illegal in some places to drive while uninsured. Do you care about your fellow man, or only about your monthly expenses?

HM

John Terry claimed he didn’t racially abuse Anton Ferdinand.

Go fucking figure.

Chelsea are cunts.

spinner

Also, didn’t those Chelsea fans swear under oath in court that they didn’t racially abuse that guy in Paris?

Enjoy your criminal records, you racist cunts!

Jiminho

*GASP*

Scott

Alonso is a murderer. Of course he wouldn’t consider that a foul.

ScotchEggsRules

Ain’t that the truth.

AusDrexler

Having just read about the car crash, it amazes me this guy was allowed to avoid jail time. I guess he used the same defence….. “I’m sorry for Bellerin but I didn’t foul him,” said Alonso, who was lucky to escape without even a booking for his actions. I jumped a bit higher and got to the ball first, I didn’t even see him coming so I don’t think it’s a free-kick. I feel sorry for him, he’s a good friend but I didn’t see him.” could easily read “I’m sorry for her but I didn’t kill her,” said Alonso,… Read more »

John C

It wasn’t a foul, Bellerin took a running jump into Alonso path, watch from the 3rd to 6th second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkmBKTeeQF4

I don’t like to see Bellerin hurt but getting injured doesn’t make it a foul

Ivan Drago

If Alonso wasn’t leading with his elbow you might have point,but he was, and that’s dangerous play, and that’s a foul

John C

It called jumping, footballers are allowed to do it

ScotchEggsRules

Basketball players do a lot more jumping than footballers and I haven’t seen many of those get knocked out.

John C

You don’t see many footballers getting knocked out either, but football is a contact sport and contact is allowed regardless of what you might think

Ausdrexler

Yes contact is allowed, but I am confident ‘elbow to the head’ is not one of the allowable contacts. See Gabriel penalised 2nd half vs Hazard for proof, as he rubbed his forearm down Hazards ugly mug.

It kind of brings up the incident where Debuchy was shoved in back whilst in midair that saw him suffer that long term injury. It too was clearly a foul. No punishment. Seems players in defence can be belted up by the offence without punishment.

John C

The video is clear Bellerin ran at speed into Alonso’s elbow now vice versa, no foul

Alan Pardew's Peaches and Plum Emporium

So John C, do you accept then that when you jump you look like a bird by keeping your arms up with elbows out at all times?

Who jumps with their elbows that high? When I jump I use my arms and legs to gain propulsion but my arms do stay up, which would be counter-intuitive due to resistance.

John C

Alonso’s arms aren’t out, look at the picture above, they’re actually across his own body because Hector’s face is pushing them that way as he’s running across Alonso’s path.

Watch the video, it’s clear that Bellerin has taken a running jump across Alonso’s path

cheesed off

John, what does the C stand for?

Rochester

You have to ask? ?

Mustapha Kacka

ct scan ?

John C

Correct

Georgeycharles

Chelsea supporter ?

StuckInTheWire

You Sir, are a Berk.

bob davis

Alonso has lead with his arm.

From what I’ve seen he’s connected with Bellerin’s head before he gets the ball.

A foul would be given all day long outside the penalty box.

mjw3

Please explain when it is permitted to lead into another player with your forearm, intentional or not.

John C

See my reply to Ivan Drago

Tim M

Here’s a fun one, if it wasn’t Bellerin but Cech who was elbowed to the ground, would it have been a foul?

John C

No, if Cech ran in to Alonso like Bellerin did it for a ball he was very unlikely to get, it wouldn’t have been.

If we replace Alonso for Giroud and Bellerin for Ashley Cole, would you be happy if the goal was called a foul?

I would say it was fair, and not just because it was against Cole

Dawn

Difference is Giroud is not a dirty cheating scumbag.

AusDrexler

Any fan would take the goal of course, but it doesnt stop it being a foul just because a goal is awarded.

Dan Hunter

The lines about fouls are hazy. It comes to the referee’s discretion. However, if the arm or any other body part is in an unnatural position, then it would be a foul. In this case, I think his arm was way higher than it needed to be. Hence, a foul. In addition, he had a running start, so he did not need his arms that high to get that leap

John C

There’s nothing unnatural with the position of his arm, seriously clutching at straws there i’m afraid

Highberry

Then I am glad to be the “voice crying in the wilderness ” in my totally biased opinion it was a foul. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it should have been a red card as I don’t believe it was intended but I would say that I hope his next shit is a hedgehog.

beNZed

Stop posting.

George

Looks like somebody got the LA Law boxed-set for xmas.

412Gooner

If it wasn’t a foul, then why was Gabriel called for a foul in the 2nd half when he and Hazard were trying to block each other off and Gabriel’s arm contacted Hazard’s head?

AusDrexler

And thats why it clearly was a foul. Outside the box foul all day, inside the box Refs seem to apply different set of rules. Rediculous that anyone can honestly say it wasnt a foul.

Buyondo kla

Arsenal is judged differently.
Remember Pogba’s foul against Liverpool’s player recently which ended 1-1.
When it comes MANures everything is ok.Man.u (Roy carol)vs spurs with a goal that was never allowed.Favours every time.We just want justice but Mike Riley being the boss it’s difficult.

Killak

John Cooper, you are wrong. Look at the same video at the reply from behind the goal at about 17seconds in. Both plays jump for the ball, both raise thier arms initially as you would BUT you can see bellarins arms are on its way down out of harms way, way before the collision, reducing the chances of injuring another player. Alsonso on the the other keeps his arms raised, with a bend at the elbow, towards a player. Just that fact makes it dangerous play and a foul. But then he actually makes contact with Bellarins face before heading… Read more »

Killak

John C*

Stupid autocorrect! Unless you are John Cooper then I say “ah ha”

Jeff

So John C, does the C stand for cunt, cretin, cock or Chelsea fan?

Paul

Compare this to the two incidents we lost xhaka for seven matches. A joke

Paul

Could you be “Paul2” or something please mate?

spinner

Which one of you two is the original Paul?

NorthernGooner

Only one way to find out.

Paul

I like Gibbs – does that help? 🙂

Gus Caesar

For it to have been a foul the referee needed to have considered that it was a challenge that was careless, reckless or committed with excessive force. Personally i think it’s far more debatable and far less obvious an error than you are suggesting, Blogs. It was a jump committed at high speed so I think it was arguably committed with excessive force but i’m not convinced that it was either reckless or careless. It was a challenge that you see committed countless times all over the pitch without a foul being given – it does remain a contact sport… Read more »

ScotchEggsRules

Someone with blinkers on telling others to take them off. Ironic.

Gus Caesar

Yes that’s right, seeing two sides to an argument & removing partisan sentiment is clearly evidence of me wearing blinkers.

ScotchEggsRules

How are you seeing 2 sides, you have one conclusion. The same amount as I do.

Gus Caesar

Try reading what I wrote.

John C

I’m with you Gus.

It’s just plan dishonest, when people can’t make a fair and objective assessment on what anybody can plainly see with their own eye’s because it doesn’t follow their own agenda it brings the site into disrepute.

Not one neutral thought it was a foul, not even Arsenal legends like Thierry Henry or Ian Wright thought it was, why the continued dishonesty?

PFo

Branding one’s opponents in an argument “dishonest” is not an argument. It’s called an ad hominem. And it’s a fallacy of reasoning. I look at the incident “with my own eye’s (sic)” and I think “that’s obviously a foul.” Period. Plus, all the neutrals and “Arsenal legends” on the TV bring up entirely irrelevant points to defend their position: “there was no intent,” “he didn’t even look at Bellerin,” “he needed to raise his arms to jump,” “it’s not his fault he’s bigger and can jump higher,” etc, etc, etc. Jumping, not simply straight up, but forward (neither jumps perfectly… Read more »

John C

But the man the counts didn’t agree with you. Neutrals don’t agree with you and your opinion is coloured by your own club allegiance. You and many other appear incapable to see any view but your own.

I’ve given reasons as to why it isn’t a foul but you appear so narrow minded you can’t accept others have a opinion you don’t agree with or even that different view points can even be reached.

It wasn’t a foul, it wasn’t given as a foul, end of story. Grow up!

Arsenalnut

It’s always a foul to elbow another player else in the head. It’s sometimes a foul to elbow an Arsenal player in the head. This, apparently, was not one of those times.

Jo

John C from the moment you came with the conclusion that it was Bellerin was the one who went into Alonso you stopped making rational sense. From the video you are clearly ficusing on Bellerin but not Alonso. Bellerin was closer to the ball and Alonso was basically galloping towards him from by the 18yrd box. Both had eyes on the ball and I am not saying the contact was intentional but Alonso’s elbow clearly makes contact with Bell’s head.

John C

I’m with you, i don’t understand the hysteria.

As you say it wasn’t careless, reckless or committed with excessive force, if anything Bellerin’s desire to get a ball he was very much second best for that caused his unfortunate injury.

PFo

But think about how “careless” (the basic requirement for a non-card foul) is usually interpreted in football when fouls are called on the ground: despite the similar choice of words, it certainly isn’t a synonym for “reckless” (otherwise all fouls would be yellow cards!), so it’s not about jumping around with ill-disciplined aggression, not caring if you injure someone or not. And it’s certainly not about “trying” or “not trying” to do anything (contrary to Gus’s comment). Players get called for fouls with the ball on the ground all the time, when they go in for the ball, obviously trying… Read more »

John C

I can’t be bothered to read your essay but I’ll ask you this. Was it given as a foul?

Mpls

Ha! Yes, of course what Mike Dean and John Moss say is infallible.

PFo

That is literally one of the stupidest imaginable responses to my comment.

NorthernGooner

You don’t want to read his post yet you still reply to it? That’s some weird logic.

PFo

The Tony Adams comment is also a red herring. The interpretation of the laws of the game have come a long way in England over the last 15-20 years. Of course that kind of challenge by, say, a Wimbledon striker in 1988 would have seemed totally normal. But it’s not today, and it shouldn’t be. You know why? Because concussions are really, really serious.

Butter my Arsenal

I’m so on the fence about this one. I think a lot of the arguments from the Arsenal camp have centred around Bellerin’s injury and that’s beside the point, as horrific as it was. I would never wish a concussion on a player and think football federations the world over should make steps to minimise concussions in football. Posting a video of Hector lying on the floor twitching, however, doesn’t help this debate. I think my main problem with the idea of it being called a foul is… what was Alonso supposed to do if not what he did? “He… Read more »

Gus Caesar

Precisely. There is no way that Alonso could have known the height to which he’d meet Bellerin when he started to jump. To be reckless, you need to have acted defiantly, to have done something when you knew the risks – clearly Alonso started out by just jumping to head the ball, it’s just not reckless. Careless? Again I don’t think so. Excessive force? Possibly, yes. What it isn’t is a clear cut and major error by the referee or indeed those who haven’t called it as a foul. It’s very much a challenge that falls into the grey areas… Read more »

Trav M

Just like to ask, regardless of what Alonso meant to do have you ever seen a player jump and make significant contact with the arm to another players head and it not get called? Think of a striker vs centre back or vice versa, when it’s elbow or forearm to head when they are both challenging ref always blows ESPECIALLY if the person seems genuinely hurt.

Gus Caesar

Yes, many times. See Alexis’ goal vs Palace last season as just one of many examples.

Gus Caesar

If the Adams comment is a red herring (its not – the rule in question hasn’t changed significantly in that time, only the culture has) then what about Alexis versus Burnley in the FA Cup or his goal at Palace last season? I read nothing on here about either being ‘dangerous’ ‘reckless’ or ludicrous comparisons to car accidents etc. And those are just two examples of many where somebody has scored a header with his arm making contact with an opponent. We whinge and moan purely because it happened to us and we can’t accept that a marginal call went… Read more »

PFo

But the culture obviously matters, since the rules are inherently vague and therefore have to be interpreted by the referee culture of the day, and what we want out of that culture is consistency (relative to other calls being made today, not 20 years ago) more than anything. Besides, your point was that we wouldn’t have minded or thought it was a foul when Adams did it back in the day, NOT that it wouldn’t have been a foul. My response: you’re right, we wouldn’t have minded back in the day, because the football culture back in the day tolerated… Read more »

PFo

As for the Alexis’s goals, I’d have to go back and look at them, but, honestly, if they involve leading with a raised forearmed that smashed into the head of an opponent, then I’d like to think, looking back, I would say they were fouls. But I don’t recall them being like Alonso’s goal at all. I may be wrong, I’d have to go look. But I’m not wrong that Alonso’s was a foul.

Killak

Gus Caesar we’re are not saying that there was intent, we are saying it was dangerous. You said “In this case Alonso’s jump took his arms to the exact position where Bellerin’s head was and the momentum meant that they came together, but it’s a nonsense to suggest that he was trying to do anything other than make contact with the ball with his head – his arms did not seek out Bellerin’s head, they were in a normal and natural position.” The problem is that alonsos jump took his arms to where bellarins head was. That’s exactly the problem.… Read more »

Gus Caesar

Firstly, there’s nothing in the rules about dangerous play or what part of your body you can and can’t ‘lead with’ – so he’s free to lead with his arms. The point is how he executed the challenge – was it reckless, careless or with excessive force? To be clear yet again, I think it was arguably excessive force, so arguably it was a foul. I don’t personally think he could’ve made a knowledgeable decision that he would make contact with Bellerin’s head (because he had no way of knowing where it would be in relation to his arms) so… Read more »

PFo

See my earlier comment (under John C) about ‘careless’ and ‘reckless’ and also ‘serious foul play’. By any reasonable interpretation of ‘careless’ (roughly consistent with how that word is interpreted to award fouls all the time on the ground) leading with the arm like that with opponents around who probably also will be jumping for the same ball, such that your arm makes serious contact with the head of one of them, allowing you to reach the ball and score, counts as careless. Making a “knowledgable decision” is the wrong standard. He doesn’t have to “know” if he’s going to… Read more »

EmGoon

That is a foul anywhere on the pitch. Period. Leading with your forearm like that going into a header is dangerous. I was astonished that I had to argue with others and neutrals watching the game that it was a clear foul and a dangerous play.

Tasmanian Jesus

Agree completely.
Even got a text from my friend whos a Spuds fan when it happened, saying “straight red!”

Bucksduck

Absolute BS! If it had been other way around i.e bellerin on alonso I would have fully expected a penalty and card awarded, and no doubt so would Chelsea.

AusDrexler

Spot on!

Tim M

I spotted this form the esteemed Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports’ Ref Watch:

“They’ve both jumped with their arms in the air and both are focused on the ball. Alonso never looks at Bellerin once. It was natural contact. It would have been more of a surprise if it had been disallowed.”

I suppose if he was only looking at the ball when flying in with two feet and accidentally snapped the opponent’s leg that would have been fine too? Urgh

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10758212/ref-watch-arsene-wenger-was-wrong-about-chelseas-opener-according-to-dermot-gallagher

Anthony

If it happens to a goalkeeper in the box or to an outfield player anywhere else on the pitch it’s deemed a foul.

Based on that alone. It’s a foul.

Goal should never have stood, however, given how lax we were for their second and third goals I’m not in anyway going to suggest it would have changed the outcome.

NorthernGooner

That’s beside the point though. We were being outplayed and we got exactly what we deserved out of that match, nothing.

But the ref got that decision wrong.

We’ve seen a clearly inferior and mediocre Chelsea team beat Barca and Bayern to win their only Champions League so far, so who’s to say things would not have been different?

My point is, Chelsea were better on the day and they won failry but they got a little help.

Tom

Not only was Alonso’s challenge clearly reckless but if you watch the replay from behind the goal you can clearly see that Alonso’s arm makes contact with Bellerin’s head before he even makes contact with the ball. Obviously everything happened very quickly but Alonso made contact with the player before the ball and on this basis, regardless of whether the challenge was reckless, it is a foul.

sixteen swans over ainola

Alonso can argue that he didn’t intend to foul Bellerin. But not all fouls are intentional: some are the result of dangerous or careless play. The issue here is twofold. One, Alonso’s forearm shouldn’t have been anywhere near Bellerin’s face and two, the outcome had Bellerin on the floor concussed as a result of dangerous and/or careless play. This was not a case of two players’ heads clashing for a 50/50 ball. Even if you think that the outcome should not determine the award of a foul, (which is fine, though arguable) Bellerin had his face hammered by Alonso’s forearm… Read more »

Gus Caesar

If you’re applying the rules of the game then, no, the injury had absolutely no bearing on the decision. In fact, if a referee in a contact sport were to place any emphasis on injuries incurred then s/he wouldn’t be doing their job very well.

There is absolutely no way that Alonso could have judged the height that Bellerin would reach before he leapt for the ball. As above, I think there’s an issue with the force of the jump, but the position of impact was certainly not something he could’ve calculated happening.

KimmyKay

the same way you don’t have to have to actually run some one over before you are penalised for dangerous driving.

sixteen swans over ainola

Anyone leading with a forearm into a situation where another player is competing is guilty of “dangerous and/or careless play”. That’s the point. Footballers are not immune from taking ‘due care and attention’ into consideration. If Alonso had missed Bellerin’s face it would still have been careless and/or dangerous – though considerably more difficult for any referee to award a foul for. However, the injury to Bellerin was ‘proof’ of misconduct. As for the blameless Alonso being unable to judge distances, positions of impact, etc. It’s his fucking job to do so. He’s a fucking footballer with a pretty limited… Read more »

Gus Caesar

Show me where it says in the rules that you can’t lead with an arm. There is nothing stopping you from leading with an arm, a leg or indeed a finger. You talk of players taking due care like you’re expecting every player to conduct a health and safety assessment before every challenge. It’s simply not realistic – this is dynamic, quick and physical sport and decisions are made in an instant. There is simply no way that Alonso knew what the consequences of his jump would have been when he started to jump and it’s quite obvious that his… Read more »

Trav M

Look at the picture in the Dermot Gallagher piece. Alonso’s arm is level his shoulder and his head is tucked down almost as if he’s protecting his head with his arm.
Now if you think thats a natural position go outside jump as if for a header and try to keep your arm that high, then come back and tell me that feels at all natural.

Gus Caesar

It is a perfectly natural position. Study a million headers and you will see that in most of them the arms are not that far below shoulder-level and often the arms are tucked inside. In this case Bellerin’s head happened to be where the arms were. Had Bellerin jumped lower then the discussion would be different. Alonso had no idea what height hector would jump when he jumped himself, i’m pretty sure he’s not a mind-reader.

ScotchEggsRules

Agreed. Anyone who thinks otherwise can go step on a Lego.

John C

You’re right it isn’t a 50/50, Bellerin doesn’t have a 50/50 chance of getting the ball, Alonso is clear favourite by about 10 to 1.

If anyone is being reckless it Bellerin, he’s never getting the ball before Alonso

Lee

John C you’re a twat. A Chelsea cunt unsurprisingly backing your cunt of a player for near knocking a player out with a FOUL. Cahill’s breaking skulls and alonso’s smashing players into concussion. But as long as you go for the ball it’s a fair challenge. DICK HEAD.

John C

So eloquent!

PFo

“If anyone is being reckless it [sic] Bellerin.”

Whether or not there are any good arguments for this not being a foul, this is clearly not one of them.

This is such a stupid statement it is beyond belief.

John C

No it isn’t.

Do you think when Marney got injured fouling Ozil the other week for Burnley that the free kick should have been reversed as a result of his injury? It’s perfectly possible to get injured and commit a foul just as it is for a player to get injured and not be fouled. An injury doesn’t equate to foul, however bad the injury might be

PFo

Straw man. I said nothing about injuries always meaning there was a foul or that Bellerin couldn’t have committed the foul because he got injured. I think your comment is ridiculous because your interpretation of events–that Bellerin “recklessly” jumped in the way of Alonso–is ridiculous. And it’s entirely irrelevant whether Bellerin had a chance of getting the ball or not given that Alonso also jumped and jumped higher than him (newsflash: players are allowed to jump in football matches even when they have no chance of getting to the ball). Bellerin’s jump is obviously not reckless. He jumps mostly straight… Read more »

John C

My argument is clear, Bellerin was reckless. Alonso didn’t lead with the arm as you say as they both came from different angles. Leading with the arm would, to me, suggest that his movement was towards Bellerin, which it clearly isn’t. The ball is in fact moving towards Alonso, and he is attacking it head on. Bellerin attacks the ball at speed and jumps, quite clearly in my view, into Alonso’s arm, from an angle. Bellerin in my opinion was the party whose behaviour was reckless and the cause of his injury. So no foul in my opinion. The resultant… Read more »

PFo

Sorry, I should have said “attempting to construct a GOOD argument.” Your argument is clear. It just sucks. Any normal English speaker in this context would understand “leading with the forearm” to mean his forearm was raised in front of his body in the direction in which he was jumping. You prefer to use those words to mean something else. We’re all permitted to use words as we like. I just prefer the normal definition. Your contention that Bellerin jumps “into Alonso” is factually incorrect: the ball is close to right above Bellerin’s head (not perfectly, of course) and he… Read more »

Godfrey Twatschloch

Gentlemen, don’t feed the troll!

PFo

But it’s so fun to make the troll look like an idiot!

John C

You’re the idiot my friend, it’s a clear head to arm situation not vice versa, the video evidence is clear

Frankie

Let’s step back and look at the facts. – Alonso elbow slams Belerin then score a goal. – Belerin is pretty much out cold on the floor, Alonso shows no empathy or remorse and celebrates the goal. – Alonso being the credit to humanity that he is even after the incident ckaims he is innocent and did nothing wrong… _ let’s look at Alonso as a human being. This guy gets pissed and crashes his car killing his friend and uses anxiety to avoid a second breath test. Then uses money to avoid prison time and let me guess he… Read more »

Giroud's Abs

That Alonso chap seems a bit of a cunt

Godfrey Twatschloch

Wearing a Chelsea shirt is normally an indication of that.

Ty

Yet Giroud gets called for this same thing once or twice a match.

Sal

Was like watching John Fashanu in his fouling prime

Clockendjim

Sadly I do not think it was a foul as Bellerin jumped into Alonso if anything. All this would have been academic though if the likes of Walcott and Coquelin had done their tracking back job. If you look at the replay and see Walcott strolling back with no intent of making a tackle, the whole weakness of our current team was exposed. The lack of fight and concentration that firstly Watford exposed and then Chelsea brought into even greater focus, sums up all that is wrong with our club. This has got to come from the top with the… Read more »

TJ

Not a chance. Bellerin was in position and jumped generally straight up. He had position first and Alonso had to go through him to win the ball. Therefore foul. There is not other way to look at this.

If Bellerin had not jumped Alonso would have hit him. If Alonso had not jumped, Bellerin would’ve touched no one. Bellerin was in position and was bowled over. Just like you can’t straight arm a player off the ball in the middle of the field you can’t do so for a header either.

John C

Wrong, watch the video i posted above. Bellerin is clearly running at speed, he covered about 8-10 yards in less than 2 seconds as he jumps. He is not jumping from a standing start.

PFo

Wow, you really have no sense whatsoever about what facts might be relevant and which ones are entirely irrelevant, do you?

“Bellerin runs at speed.” Yeah, no kidding, he’s fast. “He’s not jumping from a standing start.” No one said he was. It’s like you don’t know what these English phrases mean, or else you do but you just blurt them out at random.

Longbow

It’s called motivated reasoning. He’ll constantly bring arguments which is favorable and not completely valid and ignore the perfectly valid arguments of his opponent.

It’s like trying to convince a smoker that smoking is harmful for him.

Longbow

It’s a foul and a yellow card.

John C

Tell me why taking a running jump into an opponents path isn’t a valid argument?

You attack me not the argument, probably because you can’t find a logical reason as to why I’m wrong

Longbow

The ball is suspended 10 feet in the air and both players are going for the ball. Bellerin has his arms lower than Alonso. Alonso’s arms were high and it struck Bellerin’s head before he headed it in the goal.

I’m sorry but that argument of Bellerin getting in the way of Alonso is not valid because nobody is in possession. The ball is loose in the air.

Hotsizl

Chelsea fan here, having watched it over and over again, I have to say it was a foul. Intentional or not. More often than not, x rated tackles aren’t usually intentional but they still get red carded and rightly so. If an elbow is in the face of a professional in a 50 50 challenge…”tis a red anyday. That being said, still believe we would have won that match if the referee had called a foul

Zakgooner

Had to thumbs down you there just for being a Chelsea fan….sorry pal…had no bearing on what you said

Gervinho

“I totally agree. That’s not a foul.”

-Marouane Fellaini

Godfrey Twatschloch

Weighing in from beyond the grave are famous war criminals Dirlewanger and Arkan. Bot think it’s a perfectly alright challenge.

“Elbow to the face and a concussion? Good lord I’ve seen worse than that in my line of work. Harden the fuck up.”

Dirlewanger

“If any of my players did that I’d offer him a job in my other outfit.”

Arkan

KimmyKay

I for one would love to see a venn diagram showing the overlap between people in the media who claim this is not a foul and those that said ‘Shawcross is not that kind of player’

beNZed

I don’t give a flying fuck what this perm-haired Sunderland reject has to say about anything. Lisping Spaniards are dull as fuck.

pajanee

Im confident hector gunner be a very good RB……but sagna at his peak was different metal….World class. Combination of power, pace n techniques. Hector got terrific pace n amazing techniques…but boy hit the gym more often…strikers are becoming more and more powerful….he needs to bulk up.

Tasmanian Jesus

Sagna never had much pace or technique from what i remember. But was terrific in defence, and on the head.

Bellerin has bulked up a lot since he started playing regularly.

This is not about being hard, any player in Hectors place there and then would have ended up concussed, including Bacary.

Crash Fistfight

Bit revisionist there. Sagna was and is good going forward. You don’t have to denigrate one person to praise another.

DirtyDen

He looks like a lankier version of Michael Shannon. And Spanish.

PS. I thing Hector should cut his hair.

Frog

It wasn’t a foul. They jumped. Hector got the shit end of the stick.

Cheshire Gooner

OK Gus, i understand your argument but the same logic is not applied to two footed tackles. Xhaka got his latest red when he was clearly trying, rather incompetently, to get the ball and there were no arguments about either intention or whether his leg was in a natural position. A forearm to the face is every bit as dangerous as a boot to the leg and if it’s the responsibility of a tackler to made sure he tackles in such a way as to avoid the risk of injuring an opponent (which seems to be the current interpretation) then… Read more »

Gus Caesar

I’m not saying it wasn’t a foul, i’m just saying it was more debatable than blogs is making it out to be. It was arguably a foul & arguably not under the rules, I can see both sides. In my eyes though the ref’s decision was far from the biggest mistake on that goal, there were 2 or 3 other awful mistakes by our players. The other thing i’d say is nobody called Alexis up for dangerous play when he scored headers against Burnley in the FA Cup or at Palace last season. In both he led with his arms… Read more »

Mark

Arsenal fan and really enjoy your blogs, but my opinion you’re completely wrong on this one.

It’s not a foul – he jumps naturally and heads the ball, doesn’t elbow bellerin it’s more a high speed coming together. His elbows are in a natural position I think and so it’s not dangerous play.

You said on the arsecast you’re amazed not one single commentator / pundit has spoken out that it’s a foul. you’ve got to accept you’re wrong on this one, they’re not (all) biased!

PFo

‘natural position’ is irrelevant.

janine

Thats why he was on the ground for how long and couldnt see much when he got up and couldnt play rest of game,what game was u watching

Mark

Ps. A good defender would have got his body in a position so that alonso would HAVE to foul him to get to the ball. Our defenders are too reactive in general and rely on their speed to get themselves out of shit. Better tactical nous would get them out of a lot of mess – isn’t that would Bould was meant to sort out?

StuckInTheWire

Errr… that’s exactly what Bellerin did, got his body in a position he could deal with the ball, and anyone trying to win it would need to first foul him.

And, whaddayaknow… that’s exactly what happened.

John C

Well exactly, it’s our poor defensive team shape that should be blamed.

Our whole defense got pulled to the left leaving our right back Bellerin to defend not one but 2 high balls in the 6 yard box by himself, of which he lost both with not one midfielder in sight filling in.

It’s Wenger’s apathy towards defending that should be the focus of people scrutiny and how it leaves our defenders regularly exposed and in this case injured.

santori

Last weekend saw Mata barreling through some Leicester unfortunate.

All he got was a yellow. Should have been red with a speeding ticket.

But there you go.

NO doubt media will drivel on how he was more hungry and committed.

Xhaqelin

I cant believe I’m reading more people talking about how this wasn’t a foul. Picture a scenario where you have eyes only for the ball, have to raise your boot reasonably high to get it, in doing so make accidental contact with a player who was trying to head it. Your boot makes contact with the opponents head, he gets knocked out. Completely accidental and you were going for the ball. Its still a foul

Mark

In that situation you’ve raised your boot high which is dangerous play.

It’s not dangerous play to jump and head a high ball. If alonso swung his elbow it would obviously be dangerous, but he didn’t the elbow was in a natural position.

The difference is putting your boot high vs your elbow being in a natural position.

It’s just my opinion but you could see that’s what all the ex pros thought too…

PFo

Nothing about “natural position” is in the laws. that phrase literally does not appear in the document anywhere (I think an old version of the laws used that phrase in relation to handball, but it’s since been taken out). Of course, you could argue that your hands being in a “natural position” means your jump couldn’t possibly be “careless” or worse, but I don’t see why that should necessarily be the case. if you swing your leg at hip height for a side volley (not obviously “dangerously high”), but unfortunately end up cracking the head of an opponent with your… Read more »

Xhaqelin

Mark, if the definition of ‘dangerous play’ does not include an incident where an elbow connects with a chin, knocking the chin owner unconscious before he hits the ground, well… I give up

StuckInTheWire

And a straight red for dangerous play. Every time, and rightly so.

Lettra

You did not get the ball first !
You got the player first!
It’s foul !!
You went in hard with elbows first !
It’s a foul.
It was cowardes and dangerous not brave as some pundit cunt said.
It’s a foul.
If you do not agree with the above you’re and idiot.
Also my opinion is fact.

Aiaccooner

Suarez got a red for arguably less today..

Silent G

Convicted of drink driving, doing 112 in a 50 zone and killing a 19 year old girl. Jeez, Chelski can really pick em

Tony g

Wow…he proper spazzed out there! Definitely not a foul in my opinion though.

Holyviper

Whoa. Disturbing. Poor guy, he really got knocked out.

Eddie

Why does he say he didnt even see him? At the same time claiming he jumped before him. Sounds like someone who was very much aware of Bellerin. I would say from the play that this is the case. Bellerin on the other hand was facing away and hes the one that may not have seen Alonso. Lier…

Jonas

If Alonso didn’t see him, why was his elbow up at all?? He obviously knew he was there, and raised his arms, like so many players do (not good). And when you’re charging into the box and go flying into the ball, how is that different from a dangerous challenge in the ground?

It was at least a yellow, injury aside.

DB10**

Whether it was a foul or not is a moot point.
The point is that this incident will probably mean that half the Arsenal side will not challenge for headers after seeing bellerin knocked out cold.

gooner of Oz

Only in EPL you see a contact like this is not considered a foul. If it was la Liga or Serie A the media would explode over a goal like this

gooner of Oz

Mustafi suffered two elbows in Burnly while Fellaini does that couple of times every single match. Maybe our men should learn those too

Windell Wignal

I watch a lot of other leagues and a lot of international football and that would be called a foul but only in England players get away with that. The funny thing about this is they are giving red cards for less dangerous plays makes me wonder what is the FA doing about bad refereeing. The fact that he lead with his forearm is a foul but only the refs can make that call. Not saying that Arsenal would have gone on and won the game because we were horrible but a foul is a foul.

David Hillier's luggage

Well, I’ve claimed to have shagged Scarlett Johansson, doesn’t make it true though.

Crash Fistfight

The first goal Sunderland scored against Palace the other day was way more of a foul and the commentator on MOTD didn’t say a thing! I didn’t see the ‘analysis’ so I’m not sure if it was discussed, but it seems like there’s a similar attitude towards aerial challenges, regardless of who is involved.

Vishnu

If the result of Alonso’s actions (foul or not) could have resulted in a brain injury, shouldn’t the interpretation of the rules be clearer?

We’ve all seen what head injuries can do to players, cue Merson, Thompson etc

Gus Caesar

Cauliflower is great.

Tony

So John C, any tackle that gets the ball, takes out the opponent an in this case even gets a goal is perfectly legal?

Nigel Quashie

I’m not convinced it was a foul. What are we all expecting Alonso to have done differently? Jump with his hands pressed against his sides? You can’t jump with much control or get any leverage to header the ball if you jump like that. It’s a contact sport and I think it’s unfortunate Bellerin is that much smaller than Alonso that his head was at his elbow height. Had it been Monreal jumping and catching Azpilicueta with his elbow would almost everyone on here be so adamant it was a foul and dangerous on Azpilicueta? I doubt it. You can… Read more »

assistantref

I seriously don’t understand this. He elbows Bellerin in the head, THEN heads the ball into the net. It doesn’t even matter what position his elbow was in, whether leading with the elbow in the abstract was dangerous, etc. You can’t go through the man to get the ball and that’s what he does. I feel like the whole footballing world has gone insane on this one. There’s no debate here – you can’t elbow someone’s head out of the way and then head the ball yourself. Whether it’s intentional or not, whether the elbow is dangerous play or not…it’s… Read more »

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